Is Fury a top 10 all-time great?

[Anthony342]

That doesn't really tell us much. How good were his mandatories? How strong was the top 10 at that time in the division? not really trying to take anything away from any fighter, the point should be made though if you look at the quality of fighters in the heavyweight division many times they weren't necessarily top of the line.

I don't think vlad really fought very good competition, better than his brother if that's any consolation

And Lewis still had the WBC and Ring belt, plus was still lineal heavyweight champ. So Lewis beat the tougher of the two brothers and didn't want to fight the weaker chinned one? I knew there was a reason I hardly read Drag Queen's posts anymore.

[Anthony342]

That doesn't really tell us much. How good were his mandatories? How strong was the top 10 at that time in the division? not really trying to take anything away from any fighter, the point should be made though if you look at the quality of fighters in the heavyweight division many times they weren't necessarily top of the line.

I don't think vlad really fought very good competition, better than his brother if that's any consolation

Oh yeah and a recent report just came out that said Fury wants to fight 2 more times and retire, a Wilder rematch and a Joshua fight. So if he sticks with that, it would really depend on how AJ's career turns out. A few more defenses would put him much further up the rankings, but I guess he wants to cash out on some big fights, maybe go back to WWE again.

[Rusty Tromboni]

That doesn't really tell us much. How good were his mandatories? How strong was the top 10 at that time in the division? not really trying to take anything away from any fighter, the point should be made though if you look at the quality of fighters in the heavyweight division many times they weren't necessarily top of the line.

I don't think vlad really fought very good competition, better than his brother if that's any consolation

This is actually an interesting argument.

Lewis lost to Mercer. And was KO'd while champion.

Even if his competition had better name-recognition it wasn't necessarily better than Wlad's, nor was Lewis better than Wlad.

Lewis has some seriously impressive scalps. But so do Jack Johnson, Joe Calzaghe and Macho Camacho. Which one of them would be considered ATG?

I think we've all accepted that the bigger Heavyweights get, the thinner the competition.

[QueensburyRules]

That doesn't really tell us much. How good were his mandatories? How strong was the top 10 at that time in the division? not really trying to take anything away from any fighter, the point should be made though if you look at the quality of fighters in the heavyweight division many times they weren't necessarily top of the line.

I don't think vlad really fought very good competition, better than his brother if that's any consolation

- -Again, genuflecting your navel ain't legit analysis.

Every fighter has a timeline for comparison, and some like Ali and Wlad match up well starting with could Wlad beat Ali's Olympic comp and vice versa.

Wlad already on top, and so it goes until Ali's Viet hiatus, but we can pick him up at age 28 and see if Wlad could beat Quarry and Bonavena and vice versa.

Clearly Wlad fought tougher, bigger, stronger comp but Ali has the golden age names and HOFers, but then his first HOFer the near or past 50 yr old Archie Moore and his 2nd the dubious 2 Liston fights.

When he faces a legit prime HOFer he gets whipped badly, and then sadly hangs on for horrendous beatings that put him in a pitiable condition such that parents steered their kids into alternate sports.

[K-DOGG]

Top 10 all time? I really don't think one can fairly do that. His big wins are Derek Chisora (twice), an old, but still dominant Wladimir Klitscko and, now, Deontay Wilder. While there is no doubt as to Klitsckho's dominance over the previous decade, there is also no doubt as to the fact that he was beyond his best years when Fury beat him. Wilder has fought (outside of Fury) how many "top-notch" opponents? Stiverne was tough, so his title winning performance was impressive; but the old fat and inactive Stiverne whom he destroyed was not....other than for the sheer brutality of the win. Ortiz was widely feared and very skilled, so Wilder deserves credit for that one; but who else?

Fury is, undoubtedly, IMO, the best of his era; but even if he beats Wilder in the rematch and then Joshua, who had a better resume than Wilder, I don't think that's enough to catapult him past men who have achieved more in the history of the sport into the Top 10.

[ShoulderRoll]

Top 10 all time? I really don't think one can fairly do that. His big wins are Derek Chisora (twice), an old, but still dominant Wladimir Klitscko and, now, Deontay Wilder. While there is no doubt as to Klitsckho's dominance over the previous decade, there is also no doubt as to the fact that he was beyond his best years when Fury beat him. Wilder has fought (outside of Fury) how many "top-notch" opponents? Stiverne was tough, so his title winning performance was impressive; but the old fat and inactive Stiverne whom he destroyed was not....other than for the sheer brutality of the win. Ortiz was widely feared and very skilled, so Wilder deserves credit for that one; but who else?

Fury is, undoubtedly, IMO, the best of his era; but even if he beats Wilder in the rematch and then Joshua, who had a better resume than Wilder, I don't think that's enough to catapult him past men who have achieved more in the history of the sport into the Top 10.

Let's say Fury knocks out Deontay Wilder in the third fight as well as Anthony Joshua, then retires.

Will his resume be among the 10 best ever at heavyweight? Probably not.

But in a head-to-head matchup against any heavyweight in history would you be comfortable picking many of them to actually beat him in the ring?

[Rusty Tromboni]

Let's say Fury knocks out Deontay Wilder in the third fight as well as Anthony Joshua, then retires.

Will his resume be among the 10 best ever at heavyweight? Probably not.

But in a head-to-head matchup against any heavyweight in history would you be comfortable picking many of them to actually beat him in the ring?

Or better yet pick your three favorite Heavyweights for H2H match-ups (Vitali, Ali, Foreman, Tyson, Lewis... whoever), line them up in a row to enter the ring in succession... do you think Fury needs a full 15 rounds to take care of business?

Outside of Vitali, it's unlikely any Heavyweight lasts as long as Wilder did against THAT Fury.

[Rusty Tromboni]

- -Again, genuflecting your navel ain't legit analysis.

Every fighter has a timeline for comparison, and some like Ali and Wlad match up well starting with could Wlad beat Ali's Olympic comp and vice versa.

Wlad already on top, and so it goes until Ali's Viet hiatus, but we can pick him up at age 28 and see if Wlad could beat Quarry and Bonavena and vice versa.

Clearly Wlad fought tougher, bigger, stronger comp but Ali has the golden age names and HOFers, but then his first HOFer the near or past 50 yr old Archie Moore and his 2nd the dubious 2 Liston fights.

When he faces a legit prime HOFer he gets whipped badly, and then sadly hangs on for horrendous beatings that put him in a pitiable condition such that parents steered their kids into alternate sports.

Excellent post.


Pound for Pound Jerry Quarry might be the best Heavyweight ever. What did that matter against Ali and Frazier?

Ezzard Charles IS frequently ranked top 5 P4P, and almost never ranked outside the top 10. I don't agree with that fad, and hope it dies a sudden brutal death, but there's no denying his greatness. Or the fact that he's one of (probably the) weakest champs ever.

Lewis wasn't as good as Wlad. The film clearly demonstrates that. Wlad never ran from anyone... Lewis ran from Tyson (by remaining in the amateurs) and from both Klitchkos.

I think Lewis knows Lewis better than we do.

[The Old LefHook]

A master like Braddock would box Fury's ear lobes off.

[billeau2]

And Lewis still had the WBC and Ring belt, plus was still lineal heavyweight champ. So Lewis beat the tougher of the two brothers and didn't want to fight the weaker chinned one? I knew there was a reason I hardly read Drag Queen's posts anymore.

I'll never understand the hostility LL gets for not taking that rematch. Through his entire career he fought the toughest opponent he could. It's not like he took an easier opponent the next fight.