Is Fury a top 10 all-time great?

[Willie Pep 229]

No one was calling him great after Klitschko; then a Wilder draw only disappointed (and in the interim he beat up some Europeans), . . . but then a big victory over Wilder and he is an ATG?

?He went from a guy who got a UD over a fading Klitschko and then a draw with Wilder, to an ATG on what is really an analysis trumpeting just one fight.

Not an ATG. Isn't now, and probably won't be one. These days money makes careers too short. He's gone in one, max two fights.

[billeau2]

No one was calling him great after Klitschko; then a Wilder draw only disappointed (and in the interim he beat up some Europeans), . . . but then a big victory over Wilder and he is an ATG?

?He went from a guy who got a UD over a fading Klitschko and then a draw with Wilder, to an ATG on what is really an analysis trumpeting just one fight.

Not an ATG. Isn't now, and probably won't be one. These days money makes careers too short. He's gone in one, max two fights.

Well... I think you have to look at each division in its own right. If you look at the list of great heavyweight champions, from JJ, Dempsey, Louis, etc etc all the way up through until we get to Ali. you will notice that by and large, most great heavyweights did not fight great competition. A casual look at Liston for example, would reveal that despite his obvious greatness, he really fought very few opponents of note. And I am only using Liston as an example. Ali and the seventies was the exception. But by the time Holmes comes along its a similar problem. The best victory on his plate might have been Cooney.

Lennox Lewis was a bit exceptional also...lewis fought a lot of excellent fighters and a lot of guys who people thought would become excellent.

My point is that Fury beating Klitsko, whom, again, did not fight the best comp (though it was better than his brother) and taking on a Shavers like puncher, is not so different than many ATG heavyweights that we accept as such with no caveats. Under these conditions, if Fury can make AJ look easy, I would consider the possibility that he is an ATG, depending on what happens with the rest of his career, how well aJ would do after the fight, vis a vis wilder as well.

[QueensburyRules]

Well... I think you have to look at each division in its own right. If you look at the list of great heavyweight champions, from JJ, Dempsey, Louis, etc etc all the way up through until we get to Ali. you will notice that by and large, most great heavyweights did not fight great competition. A casual look at Liston for example, would reveal that despite his obvious greatness, he really fought very few opponents of note. And I am only using Liston as an example. Ali and the seventies was the exception. But by the time Holmes comes along its a similar problem. The best victory on his plate might have been Cooney.

Lennox Lewis was a bit exceptional also...lewis fought a lot of excellent fighters and a lot of guys who people thought would become excellent.

My point is that Fury beating Klitsko, whom, again, did not fight the best comp (though it was better than his brother) and taking on a Shavers like puncher, is not so different than many ATG heavyweights that we accept as such with no caveats. Under these conditions, if Fury can make AJ look easy, I would consider the possibility that he is an ATG, depending on what happens with the rest of his career, how well aJ would do after the fight, vis a vis wilder as well.

- -Most of Wlad comp during his great streak were genuine top 10s or mandatories.

He fought everyone but his bro, and of course Lennie didn't want to know him or his bro for their rematch. Lewie retired ASAP with none of his belts to defend, sad that.

[hansS]

No. But if Fury beats Joshua and then makes about 8-10 defenses he night be in.

[Rusty Tromboni]

- -Most of Wlad comp during his great streak were genuine top 10s or mandatories.

He fought everyone but his bro, and of course Lennie didn't want to know him or his bro for their rematch. Lewie retired ASAP with none of his belts to defend, sad that.

Yup.

But remember, facts don't count he' at Boxing Scene.

[Rusty Tromboni]

No one was calling him great after Klitschko; then a Wilder draw only disappointed (and in the interim he beat up some Europeans), . . . but then a big victory over Wilder and he is an ATG?

?He went from a guy who got a UD over a fading Klitschko and then a draw with Wilder, to an ATG on what is really an analysis trumpeting just one fight.

Not an ATG. Isn't now, and probably won't be one. These days money makes careers too short. He's gone in one, max two fights.

I love it when casuals make their way into the history section.

[Willie Pep 229]

I love it when casuals make their way into the history section.

You have no clue who I am, how long I have been around, or how much I know, casually speaking that is.

But I sure am glad you love me princess, sure glad.

[Rusty Tromboni]

You have no clue who I am, how long I have been around, or how much I know, casually speaking that is.

But I sure am glad you love me princess, sure glad.

Typical casual.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Well... I think you have to look at each division in its own right. If you look at the list of great heavyweight champions, from JJ, Dempsey, Louis, etc etc all the way up through until we get to Ali. you will notice that by and large, most great heavyweights did not fight great competition. A casual look at Liston for example, would reveal that despite his obvious greatness, he really fought very few opponents of note. And I am only using Liston as an example. Ali and the seventies was the exception. But by the time Holmes comes along its a similar problem. The best victory on his plate might have been Cooney.

Lennox Lewis was a bit exceptional also...lewis fought a lot of excellent fighters and a lot of guys who people thought would become excellent.

My point is that Fury beating Klitsko, whom, again, did not fight the best comp (though it was better than his brother) and taking on a Shavers like puncher, is not so different than many ATG heavyweights that we accept as such with no caveats. Under these conditions, if Fury can make AJ look easy, I would consider the possibility that he is an ATG, depending on what happens with the rest of his career, how well aJ would do after the fight, vis a vis wilder as well.

The easier way to look at is:
1) Who's done what Fury's done? Wlad, Wallin, Wilder 2x
2) Who can do what Fury does?
6'9", 270 lbs. Best defense we've seen in a Heavyweight, +66% KO average

Fury is a good idea of the sort of champions we would have gotten Post-WWII, if Boxing had remained the world's favorite sport.

[billeau2]

- -Most of Wlad comp during his great streak were genuine top 10s or mandatories.

He fought everyone but his bro, and of course Lennie didn't want to know him or his bro for their rematch. Lewie retired ASAP with none of his belts to defend, sad that.

That doesn't really tell us much. How good were his mandatories? How strong was the top 10 at that time in the division? not really trying to take anything away from any fighter, the point should be made though if you look at the quality of fighters in the heavyweight division many times they weren't necessarily top of the line.

I don't think vlad really fought very good competition, better than his brother if that's any consolation