How many rounds would Marciano last against Wilder?

[them_apples]

Rocky was knocked down twice in his career. A short left hook by Walcott and a short right hand by Moore. Short being the difference maker. The punch you don’t see. Wilder’s right hand is telegraphed, he winds up like a cork screw and may as well have a neon sign over his head that reads he is about to throw a right hand. He gets so many knockouts because his opponents are C-rate and not nearly as nuanced as prior generations and he does have big power. But he doesn’t do much to set that punch up. Most knockouts come by setting up your opponent with combinations, not by throwing wild haymakers and crossing your fingers they will land.

It’s possible Wilder could land one clean to end the night early, every fighter has a puncher’s chance. But I have to wonder if he could handle the constant pressure on the inside from Rocky, and if he could land easily against a bobbing and weaving opponent who he has to punch downward upon.

you are 100 percent correct

He couldn't put Fury away, and I consider Rocky a much harder man than Fury. At least in his ability to recover. But yeah, that was my point, sort of what you said - Wilder wouldn't land that Shot on Rocky. Wilder would really struggle to hit Rocky, it's a style he isn't used to and its a level he isnt used to. He's so stiff and off balance, his shots are so telegraphed, even his jab has so much tell on it like a wind up toy. He doesn't actually know how to box, he sort of just imitates what he sees.

Even if we even things out and say Wilder drops him and makes it hard for Rocky to get inside, I still can't see Rocky losing a 12 round fight. Rocky was considered small in his day but he overpowered everyone. The unfortunate thing is his best oponents happened to be former LHW's so everyone thinks the entire era was small, but it wasn't. Rocky downed quite a few big men who had little ability, just nobody remembers outside of boxrec.

Marciano fought five bigger men, One was the definitely great, but old, Joe Louis (6' 2" 213). Another was the fringe contender Johnny Shkor (6' 4" 220). A third was the journeyman Bill Wilson (6' 4" 229).

His 2 easiest KO's were the 2 bigger men on that list. Often because big men are easier to hit. Tell me Wilder isn't easy to hit. He doesn't even use his height, he stoops and holds a wide stance, he was nearly seeing eye to eye with Ortiz.

[The Old LefHook]

Wilder has a major problem--the cross section of his rib bone is too small to withstand Rock's power. The man is built like a giraffe not a rhino. Rock breaks scissors, rhino beats giraffe.

[Blue54]

I think people underestimate the size here Marciano is literally a Crusier weight and a small one at that.
Wilder isnt a huge heavy but compared to Rocky he is Marciano has puncher chance for sure and his crotch will give Wilder trouble since he is a limited fighter.
But Marciano main weakness is his defence he is great offensive fighter coming and pushing his way to his target but he is to hittable head moment and feet are to slow to avoid punches from a man 6 ft 7 with Wilder hand speed.

Marciano is the better more skilled fighter but he is mainly pressure fighter to beat a guy that much taller and bigger who hits that hard you you need some good defensive to get in and out when needed.
Rocky best bet go to Wilder body early hurt him keep him hurt fully go for ko Wilder slow starter.

But people forget in heavyweight skill trumps all but sometimes size will trump skill in this weight class Marciano is 5 ft 10 185Ib Wilder is 6 ft 7 and 220Ib it does make a big difference.

[them_apples]

I think people underestimate the size here Marciano is literally a Crusier weight and a small one at that.
Wilder isnt a huge heavy but compared to Rocky he is Marciano has puncher chance for sure and his crotch will give Wilder trouble since he is a limited fighter.
But Marciano main weakness is his defence he is great offensive fighter coming and pushing his way to his target but he is to hittable head moment and feet are to slow to avoid punches from a man 6 ft 7 with Wilder hand speed.

Marciano is the better more skilled fighter but he is mainly pressure fighter to beat a guy that much taller and bigger who hits that hard you you need some good defensive to get in and out when needed.
Rocky best bet go to Wilder body early hurt him keep him hurt fully go for ko Wilder slow starter.

But people forget in heavyweight skill trumps all but sometimes size will trump skill in this weight class Marciano is 5 ft 10 185Ib Wilder is 6 ft 7 and 220Ib it does make a big difference.

Like I said earlier, you gotta keep in mind Marciano has a few 6 ft 4 220lb - 230 lbders on his resume, registered as kos. The whole 188 lb thing was being talked about in the 50s too, that's what made Rocky so great. In fact, the entire first half of his career was him being ridiculed and criticized for his crude fighting style. They kept putting him in with better and better fighters, problem is he kept knocking them out. It got bad enough he finally got a title shot. Even when he was soundly being out boxed and both eyes shut he still registered the ko. Rockys determination was one of a kind.

[The Old LefHook]

A cross section of Wilder's short rib will reveal a diameter worthy of a scarecrow cruiserweight. Marciano, by rib cave-in.

[billeau2]

That's like saying HEarns and Robinson weren't big Welterweights.

Tell it to the guys who fought them.


That length is leverage. And the 30 pounds Wilder has on Marciano would be like the 30 pound advantage Marciano would have on Monzon (who was at least the same heighth as Marciano).

Rusty you are generalizing "strength" assuming it is equal to size, and then compounding the error regarding leverage.

The quality that Hearns and Robinson had was reach. And Marciano would not have leverage on Monzon because the rock had no reach to speak of.

Wilder would have leverage on Marciano, for all the reasons you state. I throw these comments out to keep perspective regarding the average size of fighters: perception versus reality.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Rusty you are generalizing "strength" assuming it is equal to size, and then compounding the error regarding leverage.

The quality that Hearns and Robinson had was reach. And Marciano would not have leverage on Monzon because the rock had no reach to speak of.

Wilder would have leverage on Marciano, for all the reasons you state. I throw these comments out to keep perspective regarding the average size of fighters: perception versus reality.

Rocky still generated tremendous leverage. Look at his mechanics it's beautiful.

Anyway, I might not have been clear enough: Wilder is NOT a small Heavyweight. And MArciano would be seriously undersized.

[billeau2]

Rocky still generated tremendous leverage. Look at his mechanics it's beautiful.

Anyway, I might not have been clear enough: Wilder is NOT a small Heavyweight. And MArciano would be seriously undersized.

Not all mechanics are related to leverage. Some of them are about taking leverage away.... HEY!!!! Your a wrestler so I expect you to grok this at the next level plus...You should be telling what i just posted to me!

Wrestlers can be a real problem for Ju Jutsu guys precisely for this reason. When a wrestler sprawls, and operates from just above knee level there is no handle for a Japanese grappler (Judo, Ju Jutsu, Akijutsu) to control with. A Japanese grappler generally needs at the very least two points of control to affect leverage. A wrestler on the other hand can make it so his opponent has nothing to manipulate to control the weight brought to bare upon him.

Marciano put himself in a position where a punchers leverage was ineffective. In the old days if a fighter came in like wilder with just a right hand, then the right hand was avoided. Archie Moore could not avoid Marciano though.

Wilder compared to Marciano size wise is a red herring. It makes people imagine a great physical advantage where none exists. Wilder would have about 18 pounds or so, and Marciano would have a much lower center of gravity, and be pushing up on wilder.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Wilder compared to Marciano size wise is a red herring. It makes people imagine a great physical advantage where none exists. Wilder would have about 18 pounds or so, and Marciano would have a much lower center of gravity, and be pushing up on wilder.

Kinda like Qawi vs. Foreman?

[billeau2]

Kinda like Qawi vs. Foreman?

No...Foreman was physically a bigger heavyweight than Wilder. Just built a lot heavier, regardless of weight.