Langford vs Schmeling

[Rusty Tromboni]

My rep on here is sooooo much better then yours. Everytime I see you someone is calling you an idiot, and you know it. The fact you don't know about that fight shows you have NO business being in the history section. Im Irish and I love "Terrible Terry" but everyone knows that was fixed. That's why it is not even mentioned in most accounts of Terry's career. Also I see you called Langford too small for Max(a heavy), but you say he was too big for O'Brian(a 75pder) so which is it? You change your BS to fit what ever agenda your trying to push. You also seem to always have probs with black fighters.

Hahaha!
I bet your mom thinks you're really cool too.

And I don't doubt you and others here all have sleep overs and ***** about me while giving each other make-overs. It gives me a stiffy, tbh.

Go watch the McGovern-Gans fight which JackP posted here. Tell me then that Gans through the fight. No one who's ever fought could possibly come to any other conclusion than Terry mauled him.
I get it. You probably only work up a sweat when visiting ****Hub. But start exercing. Then get yourself into a gym. You'll learn so much more than scanning BoxRec pages can ever teach you.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Man im glad you post on the history section because its filled with trolls. You would think this section would have ALOT more knowledgeable fans smdh.

It was inevitable that these two would meet. their stars were aligned.

Does anybody wanna take bets on which one is the top, and which is the bottom?

[Rusty Tromboni]

- -Dumb thread managed to get dummer.

Cong**** guys.

oh no. don't scuttle off like that.

this is your great chance to defend your boy.

tell us how Langford does what Sharkey couldn't.

[GhostofDempsey]

Great post.

Schmeling also beat Stribling, retired ***** and
probably deserved the nod in the rematch w/ Sharkey.

I am not sure what argument they can make for Langford suggesting he's better than any of those men.

These guys tend to conflate legacy and mythos with actual ability.

We see it in MMA all the time. So it's kind of easy to "fact check" Boxing. But most people really aren't here to get at the truth. they want to relish in the fantasy.

You're exactly right. Langford could hold his own and then some against some very good fighters of his era; but truth be told, I always found Johnson, Wills, McVea, Jeannette to be highly overrated. I made a thread some time ago which included footage from their fights. Broke down their styles, skills, and how that stacked up against elites of that era and the one to follow. Johnson and Wills were large HW for their era. Johnson in particular feasted upon smaller MWs, which were his best wins. McVea, Jeanette, and Wills relied heavily on clinching and grappling. They were slow, cumbersome fighters, which was to Langford's advantage, but overcoming the size of Wills was too much for Sam. He was giving up about 7 inches in height and probably 40-50 pounds in weight, maybe more. Same against Johnson.

I still consider Langford a top 20 guy given his disadvantages and willingness to mix it up with anyone. Wins over Ketchel, Gans, Flynn, Blackburn, Flowers, convince me he was the real deal during his era and the man to beat, not Johnson and certainly not Wills. I wonder how he would have held up against a more prime O'Brien or Burns. But I cannot see him beating any elite level fighter from prime Dempsey, Tunney, Sharkey and onward. He most certainly would not have beaten Louis, Schmeling, or any prime heavyweight going forward.

[billeau2]

Langford knocks Schmeling out more brutally than Joe Louis did.

And hhhhheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere we goooooo!!!!!!

[billeau2]

That did not dissapoint. What a bruhaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

For my money? I haven't a clue how to predict a fight like this. Too many unknowns. Lets look at a few things we can look at:

Langford has a wonderful resume across weights. Shoulder Roll is correct. It is important to recognize that Langford can take a shot...He will not get suprised by the size, or strength of Schmeling. He will come at Schmeling constantly.

Schmeling was a wonderful technician. He could probably keep his wits about him when attacked at weird angles and often.

I can't give Schmeling a size advantage. He wouldn't be a big heavyweight against Sam...

What emerges for me is a fight where there is about an equal chance that Schmeling finds a fault, and punishes Sam like he did Louis, or Langford overwhelms Schmeling with rough tactics, punches at all angles, etc.

One thing to remember also is that when boxing became more about the technical application of punches and not footwork, often a counter, or a method of hitting with a combination happened so quickly that there was no way to see it coming... For example, when Louis would bring his right back, schmeling would follow it in, at that distance Louis could not block.

By comparison with Langford a fighter was depending on setting traps, coming in at different angles, fighting into the grapple, perhaps trapping a hand on the opponent for good measure...
Could Sam overwhelm the fighting German with these measures? I think it is possible. Schmeling was not really bigger than Sam, not like the physically possesed Wills for example.

I really can't say who would win this one.

Lets look at some tape:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuOXZ0yzKao

Look at how good Sam's feet are, forget the punches... Look at how he stalks on his back lag. Look at his hand speed when he does get off and also, you can see he is built strong. This was no crude prototype waiting for the golden age folks. This was in fact a different way of fighting that took tremendous understanding of distance. You set traps instead of countered, you set your weight back instead of trying to bob and weave, you used in fighting and mirroring your opponent instead of duking it out....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaRalpkKXnw

Ok Schmelling's turn: What an accurate puncher! Like Liston always maintains a perfect distance, and no wasted movement on his punches. Schmelling just has that technicians way about his approach. Beautiful to watch.

Both of these guys fought differently and with such different styles. I honestly cannot see either guy walking through the other guy...

[john l]

Hahaha!
I bet your mom thinks you're really cool too.

And I don't doubt you and others here all have sleep overs and ***** about me while giving each other make-overs. It gives me a stiffy, tbh.

Go watch the McGovern-Gans fight which JackP posted here. Tell me then that Gans through the fight. No one who's ever fought could possibly come to any other conclusion than Terry mauled him.
I get it. You probably only work up a sweat when visiting ****Hub. But start exercing. Then get yourself into a gym. You'll learn so much more than scanning BoxRec pages can ever teach you.

LMAO no one who talks like you has ever even sniffed a ring lol. As far as your stiffy keep it to yourself. The fight was fixed and EVERYONE knows it.

[QueensburyRules]

LMAO no one who talks like you has ever even sniffed a ring lol. As far as your stiffy keep it to yourself. The fight was fixed and EVERYONE knows it.

- -Rare for me to ever agree with Rustbucket, but look at the first KD.

Gans smartly boxing to start the fight whereas McG doing a raging bull to close distance, connects solid, a hard KD. Gans is partially propped up with his legs together, typical fight body language for a fighter having lost control of his legs, but being Gans he wills himself up. McG swarms the wounded prey and Gans starts swinging for the fences as his only hope. Had he connected clean with McG rushing forward, McG would be the KO victim and you'd be here today hoist on your petard about the Gans superiority.

An analogy would be if Ali never returned to boxing in the 70s. Why he'd be hoist on the typical lowbrow boxing fans petard as unbeatable and #1 all time.

We know now that ain't so, but residual petards still exist who insist upon it.

[Rusty Tromboni]

You're exactly right. Langford could hold his own and then some against some very good fighters of his era; but truth be told, I always found Johnson, Wills, McVea, Jeannette to be highly overrated. I made a thread some time ago which included footage from their fights. Broke down their styles, skills, and how that stacked up against elites of that era and the one to follow. Johnson and Wills were large HW for their era. Johnson in particular feasted upon smaller MWs, which were his best wins. McVea, Jeanette, and Wills relied heavily on clinching and grappling. They were slow, cumbersome fighters, which was to Langford's advantage, but overcoming the size of Wills was too much for Sam. He was giving up about 7 inches in height and probably 40-50 pounds in weight, maybe more. Same against Johnson.

I still consider Langford a top 20 guy given his disadvantages and willingness to mix it up with anyone. Wins over Ketchel, Gans, Flynn, Blackburn, Flowers, convince me he was the real deal during his era and the man to beat, not Johnson and certainly not Wills. I wonder how he would have held up against a more prime O'Brien or Burns. But I cannot see him beating any elite level fighter from prime Dempsey, Tunney, Sharkey and onward. He most certainly would not have beaten Louis, Schmeling, or any prime heavyweight going forward.

I'll seek out that post.

I like how dispassionate and fair you are to both fighters. Too often these discussions become fixated on glorifying one guy and trashing the other. I know I am guilty of it time to time.

In the case of Langford, it seems people really can't separate fact from fiction (or at least hyperbole). He was a a very good fighter, once in a generation type. But we have modern analogs. No where near as great, but comparable stories. Qawi, Toney, Byrd all did something similar, but no one attempts to place them on the same tier as Willie Pep.

Modern MMA is even better: Melvin Manhoef is one of the few people to ever KO Mark Hunt, but no one will call him one of the best Middleweghts ever - he wouldn't even get consideration. Vitor Belfort fought for 20 years, and was at a time, the best man in the world PERIOD. But you can be sure he doesn't make a Middleweight top 10. Dan Henderson KO'd legends in heavier divisions but he just makes the top 10. Anderson Silva was for years the P4P King and considered untouchable, at this point I doubt he'd make the top 5.

As MMA has progressed fighters have become more skilled. Suddenly, a big punch doesn't take you as far. On top of that, Middleweights are bigger than they were before because fighters who would have competed in heavier divisions feel pressed to cut weight.

Langford had great timing like Harold Johnson, Floyd Patterson and Rodrigo Valdez had terrible timing. Obviously, I think he's better than them, but you can see that his success would have plummeted had he come of age a decade later when "big" men were more uniformly sound.

[Rusty Tromboni]

That did not dissapoint. What a bruhaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

For my money? I haven't a clue how to predict a fight like this. Too many unknowns. Lets look at a few things we can look at:

Langford has a wonderful resume across weights. Shoulder Roll is correct. It is important to recognize that Langford can take a shot...He will not get suprised by the size, or strength of Schmeling. He will come at Schmeling constantly.

Schmeling was a wonderful technician. He could probably keep his wits about him when attacked at weird angles and often.

I can't give Schmeling a size advantage. He wouldn't be a big heavyweight against Sam...

What emerges for me is a fight where there is about an equal chance that Schmeling finds a fault, and punishes Sam like he did Louis, or Langford overwhelms Schmeling with rough tactics, punches at all angles, etc.

One thing to remember also is that when boxing became more about the technical application of punches and not footwork, often a counter, or a method of hitting with a combination happened so quickly that there was no way to see it coming... For example, when Louis would bring his right back, schmeling would follow it in, at that distance Louis could not block.

By comparison with Langford a fighter was depending on setting traps, coming in at different angles, fighting into the grapple, perhaps trapping a hand on the opponent for good measure...
Could Sam overwhelm the fighting German with these measures? I think it is possible. Schmeling was not really bigger than Sam, not like the physically possesed Wills for example.

I really can't say who would win this one.

Lets look at some tape:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuOXZ0yzKao

Look at how good Sam's feet are, forget the punches... Look at how he stalks on his back lag. Look at his hand speed when he does get off and also, you can see he is built strong. This was no crude prototype waiting for the golden age folks. This was in fact a different way of fighting that took tremendous understanding of distance. You set traps instead of countered, you set your weight back instead of trying to bob and weave, you used in fighting and mirroring your opponent instead of duking it out....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaRalpkKXnw

Ok Schmelling's turn: What an accurate puncher! Like Liston always maintains a perfect distance, and no wasted movement on his punches. Schmelling just has that technicians way about his approach. Beautiful to watch.

Both of these guys fought differently and with such different styles. I honestly cannot see either guy walking through the other guy...

Lefty really knows how to start a thread, huh?

No one is disagreeing that Sam was great. He was more naturally talented than Max, and better P4P for many reasons. But that same can be said twice of Mickey Walker. How did that go?

Langford was not Schmeling's equal in the ring. They're actually not that much different in size. Michael Spinks, whom Sam shares a famous list with - the ATG best Light Heavyweights, almost surely had greater size on Langford than Max did.

But look at that footage, Sam has great footwork and punch selection, but he's comfortable unloading on men who cannot really offer anything in return. He's defensively capable, but not in way that he can spoil Schmeling's night. The guy's he's in there with have no idea what they are doing. The one tall White guy is the only one who really seems to have taken a punch before and has any desire to keep fighting.

Things can happen in fights. It's easily the most unpredictable adn up-set friendly sport going. Earlier I referenced Melvin Manhoef's KO of Hunt. It was Earth-shattering at the time, despite Melvin's power. But I bet a lot of fight fans don't know that fight or have forgotten about it - MMA, Boxing, and Kickboxing are FULL of moments like that, so it's easy to get lost. That being said, Sam's chances of an upset are really low. He's gonna wind up worse than Stribling. If he does better than Walker, it's simply because Walker was ill-prepared for his fight with Max (not that he would have ever won, but the good life had clearly gotten to him by that point).