Which LHW has the best chance of beating Liston/Foreman

[uncle ben]

Can you think of any light heavyweight that could defeat a 1960 Sonny Liston or a 1974 George Foreman?

[QueensburyRules]

- -Here's the ibro
Top 20.

http://www.ibroresearch.com/2006/09/light-heavyweight/

Of those, I'd go with Charles, Roy, Spinks, and Tunney in that order, but Charles would be the only one to actually take fights like that.

And he'd be a long shot.

[GhostofDempsey]

Possibly Conn if he doesn’t try to trade with them like he did with Louis.

[Mooshashi]

Dwight Muhammad Qawi. Tough, tough guy. Fought at LHW early in his career and then CW.

[The Old LefHook]

Sto-piss!!

[Rusty Tromboni]

Hmmm I seem to remember someone discussing this one before... wonder who that handsome man might be???

Anyway, we all know the answer:

Gene Fookin Tunney.

Watch the nonpareil jack p's beautiful colorized brush-up of Tunney-Dempsey.

Tunney doesn't have Ali's flash and bounce, but he's way more economical and technically sound. If Ali does have a speed advantage, it's not terribly significant, and it is off-set by Gene's more efficient movement.

That's a fight I'd love to see.

- -Here's the ibro
Top 20.

http://www.ibroresearch.com/2006/09/light-heavyweight/

Of those, I'd go with Charles, Roy, Spinks, and Tunney in that order, but Charles would be the only one to actually take fights like that.

And he'd be a long shot.

No offense, but how many of those men have you seen fight?

Charles came at Marciano, and it left him an imbecile.

Tunney wasn't just a (MUCH) better fighter than Charles, he was a better style match-up against Liston. And bigger.

Sure, Charles had way more Heavyweight fights. But Tunney is the only one who looks like an ATG in that division. And really, one of the best of all-time. Like Mystic Mac meets Ali.

Hell, we see from the footage that Conn and Loughran were better fighters than Charles... and better Heavyweights, too. Belt or not. And they could also do simple things, like not run into big punches, maintain their dignity, and die old and healthy. Funny how that works, isn't it?

Possibly Conn if he doesn’t try to trade with them like he did with Louis.

Maybe. That's an interesting suggestion. He's definitely not my first pick because:
1) Gene was a real Heavyweight, while Conn was a real Light Heavyweight. This is a fight where being able to punch and tussle will matter: things Conn was much better at than he's remembered for, but by no means was he able to do it on Tunney's level.
2) Tunney is a smart fighter who lets his opponents make the mistakes. Conn makes mistakes.
3) Conn makes mistakes.
4) Really, important we say this one, sorry if I haven't mentioned it already: Conn makes mistakes.

Liston was like a caricature of Louis. Sure, they fought differently. But if you wanted to make a cartoon of Louis, it would be Liston. That's not necessarily a bad thing. Not as far as a guy like Conn is concerned. I think Billy can still do really well, but most likely Liston suffers a lot of lost rounds before putting Conn away around the 10th.

Conn is so much better than Patterson, but I don't know how he muffles Liston's punches. And he definitely had wheels, but he never showed he could fight like a PAstrano or Loughran, which is what you need to do to avoid that bolt-gun jab of Liston.

Dwight Muhammad Qawi. Tough, tough guy. Fought at LHW early in his career and then CW.

Is this a joke?

Why would you say that?

You must be one of those people who think "Diet" Cola makes you skinny. And vaping isn't gay. And there's nothing wrong with being a grown man in the pool wearing floaties.

Qawi, for all his greatness, couldn't out-jab Spinks and Holyfield (tall orders, so no disappointment there), but he out-jabs Liston!?!?!?!?

I am the biggest Qawi fan going. So I definitely suspect a trap. But I will use this opportunity to show that I know my fighters' limits.

Qawi had a great jab. I wish Dempsey and Walker knew that punch. He really is the perfect "small man" fighter. I really love watching his fights. But he had no business entering the ring w/ Liston.

[QueensburyRules]

- -Old George bounced Qawi around like basketball.

And Rustysan, I've seen most of the tape existent of the 4 I mentioned, nor did I give them much chance.

You need an elementary school reading refresher?

OK then!

[billeau2]

Tunney is definitely on the list. No reason needs to be given, other than he was that good.

I actually think Michael Moore, the one that showed up to fight Holy the first fight at least, could be a problem for Liston... The guys that baffled Liston, so to speak, either got inside of him and could hang, or were clever boxers.

https://www.si.com/vault/1964/02/10/608210/the-four-who-baffled-liston

Moore was a hell of a boxer, a southpaw, and could slip into a puncher.

Im torn on the Jinx. I never like to go against precedent because it is objective and gives us real clues. Tyson was a lot quicker on his feet, but did not have the reach that Liston did. According to precedent Spinks would get in over his head at some point because of Liston's size and weapons....But on the other hand, Spinks had all the tools to fight back and move. Im on the fence here.

I know I am forgetting some lol.

Edit: I didn't see the "or" Foreman!!! So my list is for Liston.

[uncle ben]

Tunney is definitely on the list. No reason needs to be given, other than he was that good.

I actually think Michael Moore, the one that showed up to fight Holy the first fight at least, could be a problem for Liston... The guys that baffled Liston, so to speak, either got inside of him and could hang, or were clever boxers.

https://www.si.com/vault/1964/02/10/608210/the-four-who-baffled-liston

Moore was a hell of a boxer, a southpaw, and could slip into a puncher.

Im torn on the Jinx. I never like to go against precedent because it is objective and gives us real clues. Tyson was a lot quicker on his feet, but did not have the reach that Liston did. According to precedent Spinks would get in over his head at some point because of Liston's size and weapons....But on the other hand, Spinks had all the tools to fight back and move. Im on the fence here.

I know I am forgetting some lol.

Edit: I didn't see the "or" Foreman!!! So my list is for Liston.

So who'd you pick for Foreman?

[billeau2]

So who'd you pick for Foreman?

Liston was IMO a better fighter, but Foreman was ever so slightly a harder puncher and while Liston was a fantastic finisher, measuring guys, Foreman was more straight on relentless. they have a lot of similarities also and Liston was a big influence on Foreman.

Foreman had problems with guys like Young... boxers who could keep it together under pressure.

I don't think the Jinx makes it past big george. We have some idea about Moore, he was beating the second coming of George then got sloppy, I think he would fair better against big george, I could see Moore winning. Tunney could certainly outbox Foreman.