The Top 20 All-Time Greatest P4P List

[Silence]

I like your list. Monzon was undefeated in his last 81 fights over 13 years. 14 title fights and retired as Champion. He fought in my era and took on the best again and again. He would be on my list. I like the fact you have Charles and Fitzimmons. I would not have Roy Jones on this list. I would have Armstrong at 3 as well. Good list.

For me, shortest way to become great is beating bigger fighters. Even shorter way is beating skilled bigger fighters. Monzon cleaned his own division but he didn't prove himself in other divisions. He is still solid top 25 ATG.

My criterias:
- Moving up and beating bigger fighters.
- Overall achivement. (Titles, title defenses and records.)
- Resume. (ATGs/HoFs, boogeymans, tough gatekeepers and champions.)
- Effect and inspiration. (Fighters who use his style, ability to change the sport.)

I don't rate H2H/skill because that would have been injustice against older fighters. Langford would be like caveman. Fighters should be rated for their own time.

[JAB5239]

1. Langford
2. Greb
3. Robinson
4. Armstrong
5. Charles
6. Duran
7. Pep
8. Fitzsimmons
9. Pacquiao
10. R. Leonard
11. Ross
12. Mayweather
13. Conn
14. Arguello
15. Moore
16. B. Leonard
17. Hopkins
18. Jones
19. Hearns
20. Whitaker

[Zaroku]

This is my top 20 list, which will remain fluid, that way adjustments can be made over time.

1- Ray Robinson

2- Willie Pep

3- Archie Moore

4- Ezzard Charles

5- Harry Greb

6- Roberto Duran

7- Manny Pacquiao

8- Barney Ross

9- Benny Leonard

10- Sam Langford

11- Mickey Walker

12- Henry Armstrong

13- Ike Williams

14- Jake LaMotta

15- Jack Dempsey

16- Tiger Flowers

17- Tony Canzoneri

18- Ray Leonard

19- Roy Jones Jr

20- Emile Griffith

Plenty of honorable mentions who can easily be rotated on or off the list. In no particular order:

Jose Napoles
Pernell Whitaker
Julio Cesar Chavez Sr
Michael Spinks
Sammy Angott
Joe Louis
Jimmy McLarnin
Joe Gans
Charley Burley
Sandy Saddler
Holman Williams
Gene Tunney

Post up your lists!

Nice list and my grandfather was a boxer
I boxed Got ****ed up in TJ

As I have said on this forum I can’t ice skate
I can drink and throw chingasos
I’m Mexican

[Silence]

1- Sugar Ray Robinson
2- Harry Greb
3- Henry Armstrong
4- Sam Langford
5- Ezzard Charles
6- Roberto Duran
7- Manny Pacquiao
8- Bob Fitzsimmons
9- Sugar Ray Leonard
10- Floyd Mayweather Jr.
11- Muhammad Ali
12- Canelo Alvarez
13- Roy Jones Jr.
14- Archie Moore
15- Willie Pep
16- Sandy Saddler
17- Benny Leonard
18- Joe Gans
19- Tommy Hearns
20- Joe Louis

Honorable Mentions: Kid Chocolate, Marvin Hagler, Carlos Monzon, Bernard Hopkins, Alexis Argüello, Lennox Lewis, Eder Jofre.

Some alternatives about the best list in the thread.

- Greb has a case for N1 too. He has a record for beating most HoFs.
- Argüello and Jofre can be replaced with Hearns and Louis.
- Canelo might be in top 10. Even just after Duran. I am waiting end of his career to decide better.
- Pep was overrated. He was one division merchant, had poor resume and lost to his best opponents. Saddler might be higher than him because he was proven in two divisions.
- SRL might be too high. I respect his qualified resume despite his relatively less amount of fights. That's why he is at 9.
- Emile Griffith and Stanley Ketchel might be in at least honorable mentions.

[mrbig1]

You know if I had to make an all-time list it would have to be in my lifetime to be fair. I'm 67 and became a boxing fan after Clay beat Liston. Also, I would like to wait about ten years after they retire. Years ago, I had Larry Holmes high on my list. Looking back now I believe he fought in a very weak era. So, he has dropped on my list. Let me give you a few names who I think were great champion from 1964-now.
Ali
Monzon
Duran
Leonard
Sanchez

I want to wait before adding Manny or Floyd. Just kind of my thing. Both would be very high on this list. Almost as high as I am now. Let the name calling begin.

[Willie Pep 229]

You know if I had to make an all-time list it would have to be in my lifetime to be fair. I'm 67 and became a boxing fan after Clay beat Liston. Also, I would like to wait about ten years after they retire. Years ago, I had Larry Holmes high on my list. Looking back now I believe he fought in a very weak era. So, he has dropped on my list. Let me give you a few names who I think were great champion from 1964-now.
Ali
Monzon
Duran
Leonard
Sanchez

I want to wait before adding Manny or Floyd. Just kind of my thing. Both would be very high on this list. Almost as high as I am now. Let the name calling begin.

"Weed Head"

I'm 67 and high too --> My introduction to boxing wasn't a fight. It was the first time I saw Geroge Bellows paintng that caught my attention, followed that same year with the release of Aurora's Great Movements in Sport plastic model series (Dempsey-Firpo) that made me go out and buy my first boxing ****zine.

P.S. Your list? Sure why not. All great fighters. I believe Sanchez needed more time. With Sanchez at some level we are making an assumption. Imagine Arguello-Sanchez for the LW Title. What a terrible loss for his family and us.

classic bellows.jpg

vintage-1965-aurora-model-kit-dempsey_1_3d2aaf550638df3340237b6c43f79e35.jpg

[GhostofDempsey]

You know if I had to make an all-time list it would have to be in my lifetime to be fair. I'm 67 and became a boxing fan after Clay beat Liston. Also, I would like to wait about ten years after they retire. Years ago, I had Larry Holmes high on my list. Looking back now I believe he fought in a very weak era. So, he has dropped on my list. Let me give you a few names who I think were great champion from 1964-now.
Ali
Monzon
Duran
Leonard
Sanchez

I want to wait before adding Manny or Floyd. Just kind of my thing. Both would be very high on this list. Almost as high as I am now. Let the name calling begin.

I find that fighters on my list of ATGs also go up and down on the list the more I read about them, see video on them and attempt to make a more informed ranking of them. Nothing wrong with that.

[mrbig1]

I fully understand that Sanchez die at only 23 years old. The man fought nothing but Champions. Either former, current, or future champs. I agree he did not have the career of the four other fighters I've named. So, I'm open to that one.

[QueensburyRules]

I fully understand that Sanchez die at only 23 years old. The man fought nothing but Champions. Either former, current, or future champs. I agree he did not have the career of the four other fighters I've named. So, I'm open to that one.

- - At 23, Sal finished with a better career record than Leonard who had a lifetime.

[McGrain]

01 - Sam Langford
02 - Harry Greb
03 - Ray Robinson
04 - Henry Armstrong
05 - Bob Fitzsimmons
06 - Ezzard Charles
07 - Joe Gans
08 - Muhammad Ali
09 - Joe Louis
10 - Roberto Duran
11 - Benny Leonard
12 - Mickey Walker
13 - Willie Pep
14 - Barney Ross
15 - Archie Moore
16 - George Dixon
17 - Ray Leonard
18 - Terry McGovern
19 - Floyd Mayweather
20 - Packey McFarland