The Top 20 All-Time Greatest P4P List

[QueensburyRules]

Haha, interesting reply. Not sure if we're talking about boxing or something a whole lot deeper though. My comments weren't all that deep or controversial; at least I didn't think so.

What is your point precisely? You don't like your life? You wish you were born in the Stone Age? Somebody defriended you on Facebook, so you hate the puerile modern world and its confusing gadgets? What exactly are you saying? I don't think every fighter from the current generation is the best - if that is what you interpreted. Read what I said again, slowly this time and comprehend. Comparing elite athletes from the 19th century to the elite athletes of the 21st century is silly. You want to believe that you know something that validates the greats from the early days of boxing as ATGs, but you actually don't have anything to hang your hat on. You have a few grainy videos demonstrating truly **** boxing against people who were barely athletes by modern standards. That's it. Great in their time, not close to great all-time. I'm being objective. You're being emotional.

- -Not a Facebook sissy.

Ali vs James J Jeffries easily comparable under the right conditions. Neither can beat the other in their eras, but if they had the opportunity to grow up in the other era, parity is the rule. Rules and equipment, ect of sport change. New records are set with new, favorable conditions just as much as advanced nutrition and training, problem being that boxing been around for at least 3000 recorded years and don't rely on clock times or team sports. It's a one on one elemental fight before the beginning of time with specific rules and skills to enhance the fight.

Baseball was being played recreationally in the US before the revolution and dates back to English rounders before that, and it's the oldest of American sports, so why are there unbreakable records moderns will never be able to surpass? Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb still hold records that could never be touched in their own eras much less later. Chief Wilson still holds the season triples record for over 100 years with nobody ever within a sniff. Tris Speaker the all time doubles and outfield assists record the same deal.

Guaranteed if Jesse Owens had access to modern finances, equip, and tracks not to mention scientific training, look out Insane Bolt!

[JAB5239]

- -Not a Facebook sissy.

Ali vs James J Jeffries easily comparable under the right conditions. Neither can beat the other in their eras, but if they had the opportunity to grow up in the other era, parity is the rule. Rules and equipment, ect of sport change. New records are set with new, favorable conditions just as much as advanced nutrition and training, problem being that boxing been around for at least 3000 recorded years and don't rely on clock times or team sports. It's a one on one elemental fight before the beginning of time with specific rules and skills to enhance the fight.

Baseball was being played recreationally in the US before the revolution and dates back to English rounders before that, and it's the oldest of American sports, so why are there unbreakable records moderns will never be able to surpass? Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb still hold records that could never be touched in their own eras much less later. Chief Wilson still holds the season triples record for over 100 years with nobody ever within a sniff. Tris Speaker the all time doubles and outfield assists record the same deal.

Guaranteed if Jesse Owens had access to modern finances, equip, and tracks not to mention scientific training, look out Insane Bolt!

Besides the Ali-Jeffries talk, I think I agree with everything else in this post.

[Willie Pep 229]

- -Not a Facebook sissy.

Ali vs James J Jeffries easily comparable under the right conditions. Neither can beat the other in their eras, but if they had the opportunity to grow up in the other era, parity is the rule. Rules and equipment, ect of sport change. New records are set with new, favorable conditions just as much as advanced nutrition and training, problem being that boxing been around for at least 3000 recorded years and don't rely on clock times or team sports. It's a one on one elemental fight before the beginning of time with specific rules and skills to enhance the fight.

Baseball was being played recreationally in the US before the revolution and dates back to English rounders before that, and it's the oldest of American sports, so why are there unbreakable records moderns will never be able to surpass? Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb still hold records that could never be touched in their own eras much less later. Chief Wilson still holds the season triples record for over 100 years with nobody ever within a sniff. Tris Speaker the all time doubles and outfield assists record the same deal.

Guaranteed if Jesse Owens had access to modern finances, equip, and tracks not to mention scientific training, look out Insane Bolt!

Cy Young's wins (511) and complete games (749) are absurd numbers no one will ever touch. Plus six other career high records too boot. A total of eight career high records (there are only 21 possible records to hold. LOL

Started his career in 1890 (to 1911) and stood 6' 2" and 210 lbs - must have seemed like there was a monster on the mound in 1890.

Has a 164 WAR if that means anything to you.

[QueensburyRules]

Cy Young's wins (511) and complete games (749) are absurd numbers no one will ever touch. Plus six other career high records too boot. A total of eight career high records (there are only 21 possible records to hold. LOL

Started his career in 1890 (to 1911) and stood 6' 2" and 210 lbs - must have seemed like there was a monster on the mound in 1890.

Has a 164 WAR if that means anything to you.

- -Over 200 ways to calculate WAR, so it's a fantasy stat fad baseball guru Bill James has been backing off along with the rest of his work in his elder years.

Know this about Cy-he was dismissed by another HOFer in his try out as "Just another big farmboy we don't need more of."

Cy made his 2nd tryout team and then whooped his first tryout team in his first start...yup!

[travestyny]

The same McGovern that Gans "allegedly" threw the fight against causing the state of Illinois to outlaw boxing for more than a quarter century? Im remiss though. Let's say the fight was on the up and up. Good for McGovern!

lol. I was just watching a program the other day that mentioned everyone knew Gans took a dive in this fight.

[NachoMan]

- -Not a Facebook sissy.

Ali vs James J Jeffries easily comparable under the right conditions. Neither can beat the other in their eras, but if they had the opportunity to grow up in the other era, parity is the rule. Rules and equipment, ect of sport change. New records are set with new, favorable conditions just as much as advanced nutrition and training, problem being that boxing been around for at least 3000 recorded years and don't rely on clock times or team sports. It's a one on one elemental fight before the beginning of time with specific rules and skills to enhance the fight.

Baseball was being played recreationally in the US before the revolution and dates back to English rounders before that, and it's the oldest of American sports, so why are there unbreakable records moderns will never be able to surpass? Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb still hold records that could never be touched in their own eras much less later. Chief Wilson still holds the season triples record for over 100 years with nobody ever within a sniff. Tris Speaker the all time doubles and outfield assists record the same deal.

Guaranteed if Jesse Owens had access to modern finances, equip, and tracks not to mention scientific training, look out Insane Bolt!

I hear your point, but this is why its always worth clearly defining the criteria/standards of how these types of list are supposed to be evaluated. In my view, you're flexing the definition of an ATG and moving the goal posts a bit. You're now bending the definition to create a mythical version of how good a fighter from long ago MIGHT have been if they had lived in another time. That is taking the fantasy too far IMO.

Jim Corbett would have undoubtedly been an overall better athlete and fighter had he been born in 1966 instead of 1866. The sport evolved immensely in a century, so why would anyone think the 19th century version of Corbett could have contended with the 20th century version? We can guess about how good Jim Corbett could have been in a different era, with better nutrition, learning the more refined fight techniques, etc, etc, but that's just conjecture and fantasy. We have to take who he ACTUALLY was as a fighter, not how we personally imagine that he could have been.

There does not have to be an even distribution of fighters from all eras in an All-Time Greats list. Only someone completely enslaved to politically-correct thinking could suggest that there should be anything close to an even distribution. I insist that you are all just pandering here.

Btw, no knowledgeable fight fan would agree with your assertions about Jeffries vs Ali. Ali would certainly go back in time to completely embarrass Jeffries. Same gloves, same shoes, whatever.

[QueensburyRules]

I hear your point, but this is why its always worth clearly defining the criteria/standards of how these types of list are supposed to be evaluated. In my view, you're flexing the definition of an ATG and moving the goal posts a bit. You're now bending the definition to create a mythical version of how good a fighter from long ago MIGHT have been if they had lived in another time. That is taking the fantasy too far IMO.

Jim Corbett would have undoubtedly been an overall better athlete and fighter had he been born in 1966 instead of 1866. The sport evolved immensely in a century, so why would anyone think the 19th century version of Corbett could have contended with the 20th century version? We can guess about how good Jim Corbett could have been in a different era, with better nutrition, learning the more refined fight techniques, etc, etc, but that's just conjecture and fantasy. We have to take who he ACTUALLY was as a fighter, not how we personally imagine that he could have been.

There does not have to be an even distribution of fighters from all eras in an All-Time Greats list. Only someone completely enslaved to politically correct thinking, could suggest that there should be anything close to an even distribution. I insist that you are all just pandering here.

Btw, no knowledgeable fight fan would agree with your assertions about Jeffries vs Ali. Ali would certainly go back in time to completely embarrass Jeffries. Same gloves, same shoes, whatever.

- -Could Ali ever run the 100 in 10 sec flat like young Jeff?

Possibly, but against Jeff in 4 oz gloves with no wraps, I give
you odds on Ali fragile hands breaking on Jeff Thick skull. Could Ali cope with Jeff throwing him around like a rag doll? Could Ali go the 20-40 rds fought then?

Jeff fought out of a crouch with a leaping left hand. Need I remind U of Ali weakness to left hands and/or crouched fighters?

[QueensburyRules]

lol. I was just watching a program the other day that mentioned everyone knew Gans took a dive in this fight.

- -Is that why Gans was swinging for the fences trying to ko McG? And had no legs left after the first knockdown?

[Willie Pep 229]

- -Over 200 ways to calculate WAR, so it's a fantasy stat fad baseball guru Bill James has been backing off along with the rest of his work in his elder years.

Know this about Cy-he was dismissed by another HOFer in his try out as "Just another big farmboy we don't need more of."

Cy made his 2nd tryout team and then whooped his first tryout team in his first start...yup!

True, you should hear them go at it (WAR arguments) over on the baseball forum --.but I threw it in because regardless of its validity a comparison of the numbers does tell you something and his number is extraordinary. Kind of like the Unemployment Rate, it has all kinds of holes in it, but you can still match one year against another so long as you use the same flawed formula.

So now you are going to make me go look up his first start.

[travestyny]

- -Is that why Gans was swinging for the fences trying to ko McG? And had no legs left after the first knockdown?

How should I know? I haven't seen the fight and wasn't giving my own opinion. Are you saying Gans didn't throw the fight?