Who Could Roy Jones Not Have Beaten?

[Boxing Goat]

There's many CW's and lower tier HW's which he could have beaten.

Yeah, I agree, but the question was who couldn't he have beaten.

[Boxing Goat]

lol Roy probably only loses to Holyfeild at CW

Usky? Haye? Jirov? Toney? Nelson? Cunningham? Lebedev? Gomez? Quawi? Huck?

All of those guys were very capable of beating Roy at their peaks. Also, Roy never fought at CW during his prime, so this is hard to say but saying only Evender would beat him is just ignorant.

Roy is my favorite fighter of all time but let's be real here. Heavyweight shouldn't have even been in this thread. Guys like prime LL, Vitali, Wladimir, Bowe and Joshua would body bag Roy. Not to mention many, many others.

[QueensburyRules]

- -Yeah, let's get real here!!!

Field ducked Roy to fight the guy Roy humiliated, Two Ton Toney.

It's OK to weep...

[Rusty Tromboni]

So he was exposed after he stopped taking PEDS and he stepped up his competition?

Did you complete 6th grade? I dunno, I feel like I got out of my way to write simple sentences here. If you really couldn't comprehend my point, maybe you should be doing more productive things with your time?

Tell me who Roy's best wins were? Before the loss to Tarver, I'd say it had been Toney, Ruiz, Hopkins - in about that order. No way, is that ATG work. Impressive, but not really top tier by the standard of any decade previous.

Boxing was slower than other sports to adopt measures to discourage doping, but they were sufficient that Roy changed his habits. And the results were glaring! Deflated, and finally fighting men his size and a little closer in talent, his aurora vanished.

I will concede that he was one of the best talents of his era. And much of his talent was the product of nature and hard-work. No one sticks a needle in their ass and become RJJ overnight. But acting like PED abuse was crucial to his success, and his career didn't change once he was under the spotlight is delusional and absurd. (It's no different than what we've seen in MMA, the use of PEDs can have drastic effect on a fighter's performance. We have almost 3 decades of material for evaluation: Vitor Belfort, Mark Coleman, Alistair Overreem, Johnny Hendricks, the whole Chute Boxe camp, CroCop, Barao, Randy couture, Brock Lesnar, Jon Jones... As fighters move from one organization to another, and organizations move from one policy to another - and back again - performances change.)

Again, Roy was a great fighter, but he flourished in an era where talent - even competition - was nearly non-existent and the attitude toward PED abuse was permissive.

[BattlingNelson]

BattlingNelson,



How many times have we done this dance now?

Ha!

Again, he couldn't obtain fights with Benn or Liles.

Who did that leave?

Calzaghe hadn't done anything then, and we know that he wouldn't have fought Roy anyway.

There was only Collins.

You obviously misread my post.

I'm saying that as he couldn't fight Liles, Benn or Calzaghe, he was left with 2 choices:

1. Move up to LHW.

2. Remain at SMW to defend his IBF title.

So:

Had he have had no ambition, he could have remained at SMW and fought lesser guys, where he could have notched up numerous title defences like Ottke and Calzaghe did afterwards. Yet he didn't do that. He moved up and fought McCallum, before then targeting Griffin and Hill.

Him leaving SMW left his legacy with more questionmarks than the riddlers suit. So many names are missing. Nunn, Liles, Littles, Benn etc. I could go on and on.

How can you say that he never went after the 'main man' when you know that HBO worked tirelessly to obtain the fight, AFTER Dariusz had claimed that he'd be willing to fight in America?

He went up and was dubiously gifted a couple of trinkets to which he just said THANK YOU and then he wouldn't fight the divisions champion. This is just a fact. I don't really care about your book of excuses.

Yes, he could have stayed there. He could have milked his IBF title over and over against their mandatory challengers. But again, he moved up for a fresh challenge. IF he could have fought Benn and Liles, he'd have stayed there for longer than what he did. That's why Joe gets so much criticism. Because when he was faced with the same problem, he chose to stay to fight lesser guys, one of which he'd already beaten. (Veit)

Regarding Benn and Liles, I don't know how many times I have to educate you. You either don't take it in, or you're trolling me.

In 1995, King wanted future options on a Benn fight, and he couldn't reach a compromise with Roy's advisors. Also, King and Roy's advisors - the Levin's, didn't trust each other.

In 1996, Liles' manager and HBO both confirm that Liles was offered his highest pay day. Liles' manager said "We had a great fight lined up, but Frankie blew it..."

You've seen the links many times. Frankie's manager was angry, as he thought that Frankie had the beating of Roy.

Please tell me how the SMW division was peaking late in 1996?

Benn was coming to the end of his career.

Eubank was coming to the end of his career.

Littles had been stopped twice.

Joe hadn't done anything.

There was only really Collins.

LHW had: Dariusz, Griffin and Hill etc.

How were they less demanding opposition?

Again. His resume at SMW is so much weaker than it could have been. Yes we have covered it (to) many times. You say Jones couldn't drag them in the ring. I say he didn't try enough and his resume suffers accordingly. Now that doesn't mean that Jones isn't one of the best ever fighters in fantasy match-ups, it just means that he doesn't have the resume to validate it.

Jones career smells of trinketcollecting and moneygrabbing. Resume-building not so much. He could have done so much more.

[BattlingNelson]

It's hilarious how you rip Roy's resume yet rate these wins so highly.

Well he did beat Froch once. How are we using pound for pound?

I reckon it's possible that you guys haven't followed the debate?


Let me help you. Some posters ridiculed queensbury for saying Kessler was a p4p fighter when Calzaghe fought him. I was simply lecturing those ridiculers that he indeed was a p4p fighter.


Now return to subject.


Class dismissed.

[QueensburyRules]

- -As far as the the money Joe made from boxing, after his divorce he woke up and realized he scarcely had a penny to his name and Warren owing him a few million that was being dragged out in court.

So, since Popkins deliberately ducked Joe and he wasn't even in Roy's peripheral vision, he made his last two fights in America against his highly touted rivals to set himself up nicely and retired.

...Amen...

[billeau2]

I reckon it's possible that you guys haven't followed the debate?


Let me help you. Some posters ridiculed queensbury for saying Kessler was a p4p fighter when Calzaghe fought him. I was simply lecturing those ridiculers that he indeed was a p4p fighter.


Now return to subject.


Class dismissed.

I didn't know there was an objective criteria for a "pound to pounder!" I do know about a quarter pounder I see your point Batts, I would imagine that one or some of the orgs ranked him as such, fair enough...

[BattlingNelson]

I didn't know there was an objective criteria for a "pound to pounder!" I do know about a quarter pounder I see your point Batts, I would imagine that one or some of the orgs ranked him as such, fair enough...

As I said boxingscene had him on their list, and I think ring magazine did as well.

[billeau2]

As I said boxingscene had him on their list, and I think ring magazine did as well.

yeah I get it. Definitely a solid fighter... It is hard for me to think of him as pound for pound but who am I next to the pundits at Ring and Boxingscene?