Jack Dempsey against Rocky Marciano

[travestyny]

Another ad hominem. You are like Trump, you can't stop.

Honestly, I thought it was a fair question after your response. It was...odd, to say the least.

[billeau2]

Well then I guess, as Cyrus said, you CAN dig it. And yeah, I know, I've seen news footage from those times and it carried over into the '80s where, like Terry Crews said on the show Brooklyn Nine Nine "it was like The Purge". Giuliani did a good job of cleaning up the city, one of the few politicians that actually got things done. That seems to be more of a thing on the local level anyway, or where there seems to be a more direct impact felt. They said on the DVD extras that a real life gang leader was originally cast to play Cyrus, but never showed the day of filming, so that lead to Roger Hill being cast.

I hate Guiliani. He is a smug btard who took credit for 911 things that should have been anyone doing their best and rallying the troops, instead of pretending to be some security expert lol. BUT its true. When he took over there was a lot of complaints and police went on a rampage, but damn if you couldn't walk at night through Central Park again! The city was great for safety no question about it.

Its a cruel joke in life that a progressive man, with good values and a somewhat kind disposition, like David Dinkens and so many other progressive individuals, made/ and continue to make the worse government officials. Dinkens was a horrible mayor! Koch was the one who started kicking the middle class out.

But yeah Guiliani was a really good mayor he did get things done.

[billeau2]

i think the question is, can dempsey get rid of the rock early? i don't think so, if rocky hangs around he only needs one right hand to end the fight. dempsey fights in a style that helps rocky out too, a few posters mentioned ezzard charles and some other great boxers busting up rocky's face without realizing that charles was a pure boxer who used his long reach and jab to bust up rocky's face. dempsey doesn't fight like this, he's a puncher, he'll stand on the inside and trade with rocky. marciano was actually a good defender on the inside, he could slip punches. the way to catch him was on the outside where he'd practically bump into your jab. probably both guys are going to the hospital after this fight and there would be many knockdowns

Thing is that Rocky was better off treating a jabber like a good fighting force is taught to treat an ambush, you don't stop going forward and work through the ambush. That is how marciano could beat a jabber...Yu can see it with the Ezzard charles fight as well. if the jabber throws three and Marciano steps in each time the jab that is on range during the steps can be slipped, but even if it catches marciano he is in on his guy.

I will say that this would not work well against Dempsey...not saying marciano could not adjust...short steps are actually easier to adjust than long steps where the weight transfers crudely with each step... But Dempsey was not a guy who you could get past his jab and attack.

meanwhile: When you watch tape of Dempsey and Tyson, you can see Tyson being more deliberate about it, Jack was a bit more subtle, but what he would do is punch and when the guy responded, step around and pivot to a more desirable location. Heres the thing! marciano with his short steps and activity level would not be good for Dempsey to execute this set up!

They both present a problem for each other lol. Truly a fight no one can predict that I can see.

[Anthony342]

Thing is that Rocky was better off treating a jabber like a good fighting force is taught to treat an ambush, you don't stop going forward and work through the ambush. That is how marciano could beat a jabber...Yu can see it with the Ezzard charles fight as well. if the jabber throws three and Marciano steps in each time the jab that is on range during the steps can be slipped, but even if it catches marciano he is in on his guy.

I will say that this would not work well against Dempsey...not saying marciano could not adjust...short steps are actually easier to adjust than long steps where the weight transfers crudely with each step... But Dempsey was not a guy who you could get past his jab and attack.

meanwhile: When you watch tape of Dempsey and Tyson, you can see Tyson being more deliberate about it, Jack was a bit more subtle, but what he would do is punch and when the guy responded, step around and pivot to a more desirable location. Heres the thing! marciano with his short steps and activity level would not be good for Dempsey to execute this set up!

They both present a problem for each other lol. Truly a fight no one can predict that I can see.

Would Marciano be able to eventually beat him to the punch, or to the ambush, as it were? I ask because you just reminded me of a line from one of my all time favorite TV shows, The Good Guys (2010-2011). It only lasted one season, unfortunately, but was great fun IMO. Anyway, the line is "The best way to beat an ambush is to ambush it. It's called a pre-ambush ambush" haha.

[billeau2]

Would Marciano be able to eventually beat him to the punch, or to the ambush, as it were? I ask because you just reminded me of a line from one of my all time favorite TV shows, The Good Guys (2010-2011). It only lasted one season, unfortunately, but was great fun IMO. Anyway, the line is "The best way to beat an ambush is to ambush it. It's called a pre-ambush ambush" haha.

Dempsey was faster and more explosive, Marciano was more active and heavy handed. In East Harlem one was often taught by the older G's never hustle a hustler. Similar form as ambushing an ambush I guess.

[Anthony342]

Dempsey was faster and more explosive, Marciano was more active and heavy handed. In East Harlem one was often taught by the older G's never hustle a hustler. Similar form as ambushing an ambush I guess.

That's kind of what I was thinking. So you see Dempsey winning then?

[billeau2]

That's kind of what I was thinking. So you see Dempsey winning then?

Probably...I have to be honest here and say I am thinking this over again since posting. I like precedent because it can often be analyzed to great effect. The fight I want to go to is the first Marciano Walcot fight. Walcot was winning that fight and hitting the Rock well before he caught a big punch, in a 12 rounder (why i hate 12 round fights for championships) Walcot would have won.

Walcot was an excellent puncher but no Jack Dempsey. But I would never want to bet against Marciano either... That style, its the hardest because it depends on constant pressure, and activity, but guys who pull it off, like Marciano, Frazier, Holyfield have a habit of beating guys. Good as Ridick Bowe was Holy out punched him when he was measured and listened to his corner.

Marciano knew how to get in there and touch his guy up. But precedent tells me Jack would take it.

[HOUDINI563]

I believe Dempsey gets inside very early and really beats Marciano to a pulp. The only question would be if Rocky could some hoe survive the initial five round all out onslaught and them come on to win. Dempsey punches way too hard for me to envision this as a reality. I think the ref stops the bout within five rounds with Marciano a bloody mess.

[billeau2]

I believe Dempsey gets inside very early and really beats Marciano to a pulp. The only question would be if Rocky could some hoe survive the initial five round all out onslaught and them come on to win. Dempsey punches way too hard for me to envision this as a reality. I think the ref stops the bout within five rounds with Marciano a bloody mess.

Interesting fact: Both guys were described by opponents as hitting everything and doing so hard enough that arms, shoulders, etc hurt when punched.

[ShoulderRoll]

I believe Dempsey gets inside very early and really beats Marciano to a pulp. The only question would be if Rocky could some hoe survive the initial five round all out onslaught and them come on to win. Dempsey punches way too hard for me to envision this as a reality. I think the ref stops the bout within five rounds with Marciano a bloody mess.

I tend to agree with this analysis.

And the prevailing opinion of the boxing fraternity has almost always been that Jack Dempsey's place in the boxing pantheon was higher than Marciano's.

It's only in the current era that this seems to have been reversed for some reason.