Why Does Jack Johnson Get a Pass on Opposition while Marciano Does Not?

[HOUDINI563]

Dempsey was no racist. It was EXPECTED of every hwt champion to keep the most prized award in all of sports away from the black race. Being the worlds hwt champion hypothetically meant you were the physical master of all men. NOT a title the white race in early 20th century wanted to have owned by a black man.

The entire idea that Dempsey ducked Wills has been disproved 80 years ago. No new facts have been discovered that changes this as fact.

[HOUDINI563]

"Negro" was common terminology for the black race in those days. Most everyone used that terminology in those days.

[travestyny]

There's so much wrong with your post where do I begin? I'll just list points of correction or disagreement.

1. Dempsey could not have fought Jeanette had he wanted to because he had a contract with Kearns. Do you think that just because it was 1918 there was no law and everyone could do whatever they want? A contract is binding whether it's 1918 or 2018.

It was a charity event, he was there to fight, and he stated that he would fight any white man. The fight could have gone on had he insisted. If he let Kearns convince him not to fight, then that's on him. It's very simple.

2. Where did Dempsey refer to blacks as negros?

I posted it to you already. Are you taking the time to read my posts carefully? This is like the Philly/New York thing all over again.



It's toward the bottom.

3. He didn't draw the color line, Kearns and Rickard did. Just because he supposedly said it doesn't mean it was his biding. He was doing what Kearns and Rickard said.

Wrong. He drew the color line in 1919, erased it in 1920, and drew it again in 1921. Obviously he had the free will to decide willy nilly whether he wanted to draw it. We've all posted the information about this here. The above image is when he erased it in 1920 saying that he needed the money. The newspaper article I posted in the past about him specifically saying he would draw the color line was in 1921.

4. Jeanette was incredibly overmatched and didn't even put on gloves until he was 25 years old. The last time he fought Johnson his record was supposedly 10-10-1. That's a bum record but yet you give him a pass because he was black.

Give him a pass? I have no idea what you are talking about here. No matter what you think of Joe Jeannette, Dempsey didn't fight him when he was accosted by him. So I don't see your point. Jack Johnson fought him 7 times.

5. McVea was under 20 years old for all of their bouts and according to their last fight McVea was completely dominated and outclass. Does this sound like a formidable opponent to you? Because he wasn't.

Dempsey didn't fight him, did he?

6. Weight doesn't matter in heavyweight boxing? What the hell kind of logic is that? It does but that would be plausible if they were both over the light heavyweight limit. This wasn't two heavyweights, it was a middleweight and a heavyweight.

Referring to Langford? Well again, Dempsey didn't fight him. Said he was scared. And if you want to bring up weight, give Johnson more credit since he was 20-25lbs lighter than McVea. Or, scratch off a good chunk of Vlad Klits. resume

Dempsey didn't "swerve" Mcvea.

Haven't heard anything about McVea honestly other than he was brought up in this thread, and I know they didn't fight. He did avoid Jeannette and Langford as we have seen.


"You are a good boy."

[travestyny]

"Negro" was common terminology for the black race in those days. Most everyone used that terminology in those days.

Of course, and that's why it's so weird that the dude is saying if Dempsey had used the term, he would be considered a racist.

At that time in American history the public was racist af. Colored was considered the non-racist polite term. If Dempsey had a real disdain for black folks he would have said 'negro'.

??? Are you now saying that Dempsey is racist, Mojo?

[travestyny]

Dempsey was no racist. It was EXPECTED of every hwt champion to keep the most prized award in all of sports away from the black race. Being the worlds hwt champion hypothetically meant you were the physical master of all men. NOT a title the white race in early 20th century wanted to have owned by a black man.

The entire idea that Dempsey ducked Wills has been disproved 80 years ago. No new facts have been discovered that changes this as fact.

Because of what you've mentioned, I think we are focusing moreso on Dempsey before he was champion. Though one does wonder why they couldn't have gotten Wills that shot when a poll in 1922 said the nation wanted it and twice contracts were signed. It's a shame that Wills never got his shot.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

It was a charity event, he was there to fight, and he stated that he would fight any white man. The could have gone on had he insisted. If he let Kearns convince him not to fight, then that's on him. It's very simple.



I posted it to you already. Are you taking the time to read my posts carefully? This is like the Philly/New York thing all over again.



It's toward the bottom.



Wrong. He drew the color line in 1919, erased it in 1920, and drew it again in 1921. Obviously he had the free will to decide willy nilly whether he wanted to draw it. We've all posted the information about this here. The above image is when he erased it in 1920 saying that he needed the money. The newspaper article I posted in the past about him specifically saying he would draw the color line was in 1921.



Give him a pass? I have no idea what you are talking about here. No matter what you think of Joe Jeannette, Dempsey didn't fight him when he was accosted by him. So I don't see your point. Jack Johnson fought him 7 times.



Dempsey didn't fight him, did he?



Referring to Langford? Well again, Dempsey didn't fight him. Said he was scared. And if you want to bring up weight, give Johnson more credit since he was 20-25lbs lighter than McVea. Or, scratch off a good chunk of Vlad Klits. resume



Haven't heard anything about McVea honestly other than he was brought up in this thread, and I know they didn't fight. He did avoid Jeannette and Langford as we have seen.


"You are a good boy."

1.He literally says right in the article YOU posted that his management made him do it.

2. How do you know what Kearns was thinking? Were you there? Did you talk to Kearns? You have no idea what it would have taken for him to let Dempsey fight Jeanette.

3. The Joe Jeanette that fought Johnson was hardly even a decent boxer. He had a 50/50 resume for christs sake! You're making a false equivalency.

4. Jack Johnson never fought Harry Greb though so that means he ducked him right? Right. Jack Johnson never fought Gene Tunney so he ducked him right? Right. Jack Johnson never fought Jack Dempsey so he ducked him right? Right. Jack Johnson never fought Bill Brennan so he ducked him right? Right. Jack Johnson never fought Harry Wills so he ducked him right? Right.

5. 20/21 year old Dempsey refused to fight a full blown prime heavyweight killer in Langford with 100+ fights under his belt. Johnson fought a still learning MIDDLEWEIGHT Langford only one time. Wouldn't go near him again.

6. No. Johnson ducked Langford, Jeanette, and Mcvea in their HEAVYWEIGHT primes.

[GhostofDempsey]

All due respect, I think you're making this too much about race. It's very simple. If a fighter shows up to find one guy and another guy is thrown into his place, it's very su****ious. Tommy Morrison fought Tim Tomashek when his opponent fell through, true enough. However, Tim Tomashek was not a highly touted heavyweight either. he was munching on a hot dog in the audience and possibly drinking a beer. Haha. I can't blame Dempsey for pulling out when a guy just shows up like that. I honestly don't believe any other heavyweight in history would have taken such a fight.

This would be like Floyd getting ready to enter the ring with Berto and suddenly Spemce comes down and says nope, change of plans you are fighting me tonight. How do you think that would go? LMAO.

Well, you continuously invoke race in these posts. What other conclusion am I to draw?

And the pony don't slow down...

He is a race-monger, always working that angle.

[Tony Trick-Pony]

This would be like Floyd getting ready to enter the ring with Berto and suddenly Spemce comes down and says nope, change of plans you are fighting me tonight. How do you think that would go? LMAO.



He is a race-monger, always working that angle.

I would love to see the Berto-Spence switch. Floyd would be livid, but you know, I don't blame him and I don't blame Dempsey either.

[travestyny]

This would be like Floyd getting ready to enter the ring with Berto and suddenly Spemce comes down and says nope, change of plans you are fighting me tonight. How do you think that would go? LMAO.



He is a race-monger, always working that angle.

Easy question, I'll tell you how it would go.


You would call Mayweather a coward, a quitter, a big bum, and a yellow dog....


Just like the crowd called Dempsey

[GhostofDempsey]

I would love to see the Berto-Spence switch. Floyd would be livid, but you know, I don't blame him and I don't blame Dempsey either.

Floyd was ready to call off the Maidana fight if he didn't change his gloves! Imagine if they tried substituting Maidana for Khan or Thurman? Hahaha, he would ran out of the ring faster than you can say IV.