Greats of the past Vs Modern heavies.

[them_apples]

Patterson might not have been able to take a punch at Light HEavyweight, either. He didn't stick around long enough for his chin to be tested. Quarry and Ingo were his size and put him on the mat easier than Ali did.

Ali's defense wasn't great. It's terribly overrated. What he did worked because he was fighting shorter, less athletic men. He worked for years with Dundee, who trained men like El Feo, Leonard and PAstrano... it was simply beyond Ali to refine his skills.

While it's true a smaller Ali would be even faster (insane) and more coordinated, it's hard to imagine he'd ever round out all those rough edges. Instead, he'd run into men who could match his speed/off-set it with superior technique and timing. And where he couldn't impose his size.

That's actually what happened against Frazier and Norton, but folks just write that off as Ali having been worse post-exile. (It's unlikely a Pre-Exile Ali gives either of those men much trouble).

Again, how great was Macho Camacho? Rosario had him running scared, and Chavez ruined him. Ali was tougher than Camacho, but no one talks about Camacho as if he were the greatest in any division which he fought it.

Ali was the Jack Johnson of his era. Decent guy who looked great because he out-matched his competition. Move him forward a decade of two, and he looks much more pedestrian.

Alis defense actually worked better against taller guys. Foreman, wepner, bugner and Terrell couldn't hit him with anything. He lied on the ropes and Foreman couldn't hit him in the head for 7 rounds. Foreman landed shots on every single opponent of his entire career, even in losing. Even when the speed difference was huge as he got older. Accept for Ali. He couldn't touch Alis face with anything.

[QueensburyRules]

Alis defense actually worked better against taller guys. Foreman, wepner, bugner and Terrell couldn't hit him with anything. He lied on the ropes and Foreman couldn't hit him in the head for 7 rounds.

- -We saw the tragic results of Ali replicating a punch dummy.

What's U excuse?

[them_apples]

- -We saw the tragic results of Ali replicating a punch dummy.

What's U excuse?

not really, he was showing signs of Parkinsons not being punch drunk. But regardless, doesn't mean he never got hit, anyone who fights the competition he fought is gonna get hit.

Whitaker sounded pretty punch drunk. We'll see how Mayweather does later on.

Toney is punchdrunk and hes still relatively active. cant imagine when he retires. I don't know what that guy did to get to the level of punch drunken ness.

They had good defense.

[QueensburyRules]

not really, he was showing signs of Parkinsons not being punch drunk. But regardless, doesn't mean he never got hit, anyone who fights the competition he fought is gonna get hit.

Whitaker sounded pretty punch drunk. We'll see how Mayweather does later on.

Toney is punchdrunk and hes still relatively active. cant imagine when he retires. I don't know what that guy did to get to the level of punch drunken ness.

They had good defense.

- -Toney had his best defense against the clod type heavy when forced to the ropes. The top heavies easily figured him as did the top sub heavies.

His best asset was a thick chin and skull.

[90weight]

I think you're absolutely right Sonny Liston was awesome his power is strength particularly his Jab he would destroy these heavyweights today that includes the Klitschko brothers and Mike Tyson and I think Mike Tyson I said one time that would be one guy he would not want to face

[Rusty Tromboni]

Alis defense actually worked better against taller guys. Foreman, wepner, bugner and Terrell couldn't hit him with anything.

Incredible.


never in my life did I think I'd see the word defense and those names linked in the same argument.

For what it's worth, Wepner was a massive underdog, but still managed to nearly last the distance against Ali... even dropping Ali along the way.

Ali's defense wasn't anything special. Just reference his fights with Frazier and Norton. The former was smaller and WELL past his prime for two of those encounters, the latter was notoriously chinny. Both went the distance (or thereabouts) in three encounters with Ali... because they put the pressure on Ali.

He lied on the ropes and Foreman couldn't hit him in the head for 7 rounds. Foreman landed shots on every single opponent of his entire career, even in losing. Even when the speed difference was huge as he got older. Accept for Ali. He couldn't touch Alis face with anything.

Hahaha! Now that's defense!?!?

Dempsey gets excoriated for being pushed out of the ring, through ridiculously loose ropes (almost as if it were planned). People say he was KO'd, or should have been DQ'd. It's ridiculous.

Meanwhile, Uncle Angelo tampers with the ropes to allow Ali a few extra inches, and Ali is heralded as some genius and defensive maestro. Peralta didn't need "rope a dope" to out-box foreman. Neither did Young. You know Foreman wasn't dodging Quarry because he anticipated that kinda treatment. Hell, even fat Moorer (whom I heartily cheered at the time) almost out-boxed George, and it definitely didn't include rope a dope.

Ali took plenty wallops that night. (Sorry, it's true. Actually watch the fight and you'll see that). But he allowed sloppy george to get frustrated and miss.

Let Clancy start handling Foreman well ahead of the fight and george puts Ali away late, something similar to the Moorer fight.

[Rusty Tromboni]

I think you're absolutely right Sonny Liston was awesome his power is strength particularly his Jab he would destroy these heavyweights today that includes the Klitschko brothers and Mike Tyson and I think Mike Tyson I said one time that would be one guy he would not want to face

And yet Williams backed him up to the ropes.

And young ALi proved too strong for him.

Really, this isn't your sport.