Greats of the past Vs Modern heavies.

[billeau2]

- -Sheriff Bob KOed Jerry' bro,

Yup Apples told me my bad

[The Old LefHook]

Wilder'll take 'em all, by buggery, it is clear now.

[Rusty Tromboni]

There is so much more to it then that, you treat boxing like it's a video game with stat lines. Marciano displayed the type of ring confidence and heart that few champions ever have. If any to be honest. Rocky was as mean as they come and almost impossible to intimidate or discourage. Every top fighter he faced was leagues better than him in the general skills department, they all however succumbed to his pressure, because once you are in the ring with someone who never quits and never shows any respect whatsoever, things change.

In the second Walcott fight, He stopped Walcott brutally because Walcott mentally checked out once the punches started flying. He already threw everything but the kitchen sink at rocky the first time around, once he saw that same relentless bull coming at him with full expectation to beat on him for another 15 rounds he just checked out and said "nah, not again **** this".

I don't think rocky was the greatest heavyweight of all time by any means, but Liston did and it shines a light from a real fighters understanding of how character plays a role in a champion. Liston stated Rocky was the greatest heavyweight ever because he absolutely never gave up and refused to lose. Rocky's entire mentality and training regimen was he was going to bring more than the next guy no matter what, I can't imagine what it would take to completely put the guy away for good. I could definitely see some great heavyweights winning decisions over him or maybe getting a tko stoppage at best by the ref.

If Rocky was such a bum, Ezzard Charles would have seriously tuned him up - and easily.

I know I am just shouting at a wall when trying to explain this stuff to you, but someone like Marciano isn't going to get tuned up and quit by someone like Anthony Joshua. Character goes a long way.

Are you his widow?

Seriously, this is getting ridiculous.

The same reply I provided just a few posts ago: replace "Marciano" with "Hagler", and the names of their respective opponents and the post reads the EXACT SAME WAY.

The only caveat might be that Hagler HAD SKILL. He could Box. Verywell, actually. Sometimes his more ardent fans make him into a Wilfredo Benitez, but I am sure you can sympathize with fans who get outrageously carried away.

Oh, and Hagler did NOT have ridiculous power. I know you want to make that an advantage of Marciano's. But before you do, consider: Marciano new he had survived a mass extinction event. The players on the field had name value, but that's it. How good does any All-Star Team play? Does anyone still watch those games? He knew his power was the ticket.

Hagler didn't have that advantage. In fact, he was often fighting men who hit harder. And the level of skill his opponents possessed was higher.

So while I wanted to say your comment applies just as much to Hagler as it does to Marciano, it actually applies MORE.

Quarry was a tough guy, but he wasn't a winner. He also wasn't a very hard guy to figure out, Rocky was awkward and dangerous. He had bone crushing power and a very unorthodox way of fighting. If Rocky and Quarry fought, You would see Quarry land some good blows for about 3 or 4 rounds before being completely disconnected at some point.

That's exactly the sort of comment I would make.

If I were a cuck.

Quarry fought a very different level of competition. You cannot even compare it.

You can say Marciano had attributes Quarry didn't, but there's nothing about Charles or Walcott that makes me question that the best Quarry doesn't beat Marciano. At least, his wins over Lyle, Shvaers and Foster carry more prestige.

If you have footage documenting Walcott and Charles's superiority to Quarry I would LOVE to see it. In fact, we all would. You could make a lot of money making that available.

Quarry was a winner, and a warrior even in defeat. The fact that you don't know what that means doesn't mean you're free to question it. Ignorance is not an excuse.

If you want to understand what this attribute is and find a modern day comparison, look at Marcos Maidana. From a stat line perspective, he's just a heavy handed brawler. He loses his balance and leaves himself wide open at times, has below average hand speed for someone at 140 or 147. What Marcos Maidana has that is rare for today is his mentality. He's doesn't respect anyone and he doesn't get intimidated. He also has an awkward but function first fighting style. fighters will stop throwing punches at him because he might just throw a haymaker at them while looking at their kneecap and stumbling off balance. They start to pucker up and just stay away from him, throwing less and becoming frustrated because there is nothing textbook to make sense of. Pacquiao was in a sense, a more elite version with better athletic attributes.

How'd that rematch with Floyd go?

Hagler by the way, was making 160 EASILY. I don't know how much you have read up on him, but he even considered fighting at 154 when turning pro, but for Money reasons decided on 160.

Yup, and I am sure when he was a teenager he could have fought at Welterweight. And when he was born, I'd be SHOCKED if he weighed more than 11 pounds.

When he was in his prime he religiously made 160lbs. That's impressive. That wasn't seen in eras before Monzon.

Monzon, Hagler, Hopkins: they all made very sure to stay at 160.
Spinks moved up to Heavyweight and won. He was bigger than Marciano. Why did he spend all that time at Light Heavyweight? Why did he finally make the jump to Heavyweight? What happened when he met a Heavyweight with a pulse?

Physics, young Padawan.

Rusty... come on man. That is not clearly true by any stretch. Bob Foster was smaller and also Ko'ed Quarry so obviously size was not the only factor. Foster, albeit in a different way, was a big puncher as was Marciano.

Foster out-right refused to fight Gerry. For great reason.

Exquisite post, Apples, but in reponse to a churl's wag.

Oh, Mr. Humphries, you're trying to make me jealous?

[them_apples]

That's exactly the sort of comment I would make.

If I were a cuck.

Quarry fought a very different level of competition. You cannot even compare it.

You can say Marciano had attributes Quarry didn't, but there's nothing about Charles or Walcott that makes me question that the best Quarry doesn't beat Marciano. At least, his wins over Lyle, Shvaers and Foster carry more prestige.

If you have footage documenting Walcott and Charles's superiority to Quarry I would LOVE to see it. In fact, we all would. You could make a lot of money making that available.

Quarry was a winner, and a warrior even in defeat. The fact that you don't know what that means doesn't mean you're free to question it. Ignorance is not an excuse.

Nah, Quarry was bred to be a tough guy, not a winner. There's a difference. You can still mentally quit but remain standing and catch a beating, not actively believing you can still win. I know plenty of kids in boxing gyms who's specialty was just being tough. Quarry being of Irish decent I am certain had that engrained in his mind. This is where your boxing inexperience becomes the most obvious when we speak on topics like this - you go back to the video game statline mentality, unaware of the intangibles of actual boxing.

You know Connor Mcgregor quit against Mayweather right? I get it he complained to the ref for stopping it and technically didn't go down, but inside his mind - he quit. Someone who doesn't quit would have been fighting back as to not allow the ref to stop it. He was putting on a pretty obvious display of please help me, throw in the towel.

Quarry is harder than Mcgregor by a long shot, but just explaining that being a tough guy doesn't make you a super confident winner.

How'd that rematch with Floyd go?

Nearly the same as the first fight, if you pay close enough attention - which you don't

Yup, and I am sure when he was a teenager he could have fought at Welterweight. And when he was born, I'd be SHOCKED if he weighed more than 11 pounds.

When he was in his prime he religiously made 160lbs. That's impressive. That wasn't seen in eras before Monzon.

Monzon, Hagler, Hopkins: they all made very sure to stay at 160.
Spinks moved up to Heavyweight and won. He was bigger than Marciano. Why did he spend all that time at Light Heavyweight? Why did he finally make the jump to Heavyweight? What happened when he met a Heavyweight with a pulse?

Physics, young Padawan.

What went wrong with physics when Michael Moore koed 6 ft 10 275 lb Mike White?




Hagler and Rocky are not the same size, everyone knows Rocky isn't a big heavyweight, but he's still bigger than Hagler, sorry lol.




close in height but not size, Hagler is smaller Framed, but frame and bone structure doesn't mean anything to you



Rocky shouldn't have been able to even scratch Joe Louis

[Rusty Tromboni]

Nah, Quarry was bred to be a tough guy, not a winner. There's a difference. You can still mentally quit but remain standing and catch a beating, not actively believing you can still win. I know plenty of kids in boxing gyms who's specialty was just being tough. Quarry being of Irish decent I am certain had that engrained in his mind. This is where your boxing inexperience becomes the most obvious when we speak on topics like this - you go back to the video game statline mentality, unaware of the intangibles of actual boxing.

Do you ride the Short Bus with Corky?

I get it, you **** around a gym. But you've clearly never competed in any sport, let alone Boxing, at a meaningful competitive level. I was paid to go to a very good college for Wrestling. I was looked at for Baseball and Football. These are more competitive sports today than Boxing. My brothers all played college sports. I know you're trying to shield yourself from humiliation, but better to stay in the shallow end if you can't swim than put on your Floaties and innertube.

If you want to say that Quarry zigged when he should have zagged, OK. That, along with keeping his father as his trainer, definitely stunted his career.

He seemed tentative in the fight with Ellis - the claim of hurting his back looks right. But the backlash he suffered from the press seems to have motivated him to try and prove himself against Frazier. IF he had boxed, rather than brawled, he might have extended both that fight and his career. On the other hand, Frazier was known to be a slow-starter and not a power puncher. Like Vitali, he might have calculated his best chance was to ambush the champ.


It's easy to say he should have done something differently. But it's really hard to say what he should have done differently; or at least how things would have played out differently. The only thing we can say definitively (aside from the fact that he needed a real trainer, like Clancy or Arcel) was that he was a man without a home: too big for Light Heavyweight, too small for Heavyweight; fighting in the most competitive era that division ever saw, no less. Few divisions, really, ever hosted that much talent at once.

But that's not to say Quarry wasn't a winner:
He beat Foster, Shavers, Lyle, Patterson (2x). Foreman (whom you dreaming of servicing), Norton and Foster wanted nothing to do with him. Ellis, Chuvalo and MAchen didn't want a rematch.

That's more impressive than anything Marciano and Spinks - the bookends to the Golden Age of Heavyweights - can claim. The former retired undefeated. The latter, a two-division champion, all but did.

[Rusty Tromboni]

You know Connor Mcgregor quit against Mayweather right? I get it he complained to the ref for stopping it and technically didn't go down, but inside his mind - he quit. Someone who doesn't quit would have been fighting back as to not allow the ref to stop it. He was putting on a pretty obvious display of please help me, throw in the towel.

McGregor was desiccated by a severe weight drain and had no Boxing experience to speak of. COnversely, Mayweather had been a PROFESSIONAL Boxer for most of McGregor's life.

Obviously a guy who has never Boxed before is going to get lost.

And how would Floyd do against a world champion Table Tennis pro? How well would he do playingPolo? Could he even get on the horse?

Put Floyd in a Jujitsu class with Blue Belts. He won't last a minute before tapping. Seriously, he'd be pinned in 30 seconds against any varsity Wrestler his size.

Guys MCgregor melted would walk into Floyd's home and do all sorts of dirty things to his kids, and guess what Floyd would do? Fu.ck all.

Boxing isn't fighting, no matter how much you wanna believe it is. McGregor handled himself just fine. You've never had to dig deep, so you can't understand that. But again, take the innertube off, and stay in the shallow end.

Nearly the same as the first fight, if you pay close enough attention - which you don't

You're butt-hurt, I get it. Butlying isn't a good way to defend yourself.

It was competitive. Not the shut-out Floyd had against Canelo. But Maidana, while successful in winning rounds, couldn't claim an upset. Everyone talks about the first fight, and ignores the rematch. Yes, Floyd is a minimalist. But he did enough to dismiss any claim that Maidana was his equal.

What went wrong with physics when Michael Moore koed 6 ft 10 275 lb Mike White?

Do you have Aspergers or something?

Walker battered Bearcat Wright, beat Uzcudun, kinda almost beat Sharkey, and had a contentious fight with Risko... but we can all agree Schmeling (smaller than those other guys) was too big for him. Well, at least the adults, who don't see everything in Black and White.

Hagler and Rocky are not the same size,

I never said they were.

But I have said many times that you utilize the strawman argument. You falsify what others say, or respond to something similar to what they say to make their point.

Rocky shouldn't have been able to even scratch Joe Louis

Yup. Youfound a bunch of pictures of guys in different poses pretending that it's evidence of how they actually compare in size.

the best part is you feature pictures where Ali is posed specifically NOT to tower over MArciano. If anything,those pictures prove that Ali was way bigger, since the photographer positions them in a way very favorable to Marciano. You being unable to see that illustrates your idiocy.

[them_apples]

Do you ride the Short Bus with Corky?

I get it, you **** around a gym. But you've clearly never competed in any sport, let alone Boxing, at a meaningful competitive level. I was paid to go to a very good college for Wrestling. I was looked at for Baseball and Football. These are more competitive sports today than Boxing. My brothers all played college sports. I know you're trying to shield yourself from humiliation, but better to stay in the shallow end if you can't swim than put on your Floaties and innertube.

If you want to say that Quarry zigged when he should have zagged, OK. That, along with keeping his father as his trainer, definitely stunted his career.

He seemed tentative in the fight with Ellis - the claim of hurting his back looks right. But the backlash he suffered from the press seems to have motivated him to try and prove himself against Frazier. IF he had boxed, rather than brawled, he might have extended both that fight and his career. On the other hand, Frazier was known to be a slow-starter and not a power puncher. Like Vitali, he might have calculated his best chance was to ambush the champ.


It's easy to say he should have done something differently. But it's really hard to say what he should have done differently; or at least how things would have played out differently. The only thing we can say definitively (aside from the fact that he needed a real trainer, like Clancy or Arcel) was that he was a man without a home: too big for Light Heavyweight, too small for Heavyweight; fighting in the most competitive era that division ever saw, no less. Few divisions, really, ever hosted that much talent at once.

But that's not to say Quarry wasn't a winner:
He beat Foster, Shavers, Lyle, Patterson (2x). Foreman (whom you dreaming of servicing), Norton and Foster wanted nothing to do with him. Ellis, Chuvalo and MAchen didn't want a rematch.

That's more impressive than anything Marciano and Spinks - the bookends to the Golden Age of Heavyweights - can claim. The former retired undefeated. The latter, a two-division champion, all but did.

No ive actually boxed for about 11 years, I used to compete as an amatuer. I still spar pros on the regular. I guarentee I was a better ammy than you lol.

I slowed down on my boxing because I broke my right hand twice and now it's suseptible to breaking. I am a tattoo artist now so I need my hands. If you want footage of me working ill gladly send it. I have sparred quite a few well known pros and held my own.

[Rusty Tromboni]

No ive actually boxed for about 11 years, I used to compete as an amatuer. I still spar pros on the regular. I guarentee I was a better ammy than you lol.

I slowed down on my boxing because I broke my right hand twice and now it's suseptible to breaking. I am a tattoo artist now so I need my hands. If you want footage of me working ill gladly send it. I have sparred quite a few well known pros and held my own.

That's fine. But again, never on a level where you had to be the best.

Boxing has really fallen off over the years. It's definitely not on the level of collegiate sports. You have your outliers: Lomachenko, Pacquiao, Mayweather, Fury. But a lot of guys couldn't make it in other sports (ones where you get paid better and take less abuse).

Quarry was a winner. But he simply didn't have a path to follow. Again, some of it might have been his mindset, and some of it owed to having a sub-par corner. But things definitely would have been better for him if there were a suitable division for him to ply his trade. Fighting guys your size is very important, which is why I referred to Marciano and Spinks.

[them_apples]

That's fine. But again, never on a level where you had to be the best.

Boxing has really fallen off over the years. It's definitely not on the level of collegiate sports. You have your outliers: Lomachenko, Pacquiao, Mayweather, Fury. But a lot of guys couldn't make it in other sports (ones where you get paid better and take less abuse).

Quarry was a winner. But he simply didn't have a path to follow. Again, some of it might have been his mindset, and some of it owed to having a sub-par corner. But things definitely would have been better for him if there were a suitable division for him to ply his trade. Fighting guys your size is very important, which is why I referred to Marciano and Spinks.

I agree, this is the point I make with you constantly yet you seem to refute it at times.

Boxing has become a sport that lower level athletes have a better shot at, much like MMA. Boxing used to hold the cream of the crop.

I agree Lomachenko, Mayweather and Pac were high tier athletes. Fury I don’t think so.

How many of Today’s Heavyweights are actually big strong heavyweights? Most of them are fat. We don’t even know how light a 6 ft Ruiz would be if you xrayed his body. He’s only 6 ft tall. The footage of him sparring Holyfield he looks smaller than Holyfield, who was a small heavyweight.

If Quarry was fat at 240 would you consider him a big heavyweight? There old sparring footage of him later in his career listed at 233, completely shot, but he just looked like a porky heavyweight today.

He’s in the grey shirt, dude he’s sparring is 6 ft 4 https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/22277

https://********/wTiTfFtWJ4E

He doesn’t even look that fat

[QueensburyRules]

I agree, this is the point I make with you constantly yet you seem to refute it at times.

Boxing has become a sport that lower level athletes have a better shot at, much like MMA. Boxing used to hold the cream of the crop.

I agree Lomachenko, Mayweather and Pac were high tier athletes. Fury I don’t think so.

How many of Today’s Heavyweights are actually big strong heavyweights? Most of them are fat. We don’t even know how light a 6 ft Ruiz would be if you xrayed his body. He’s only 6 ft tall. The footage of him sparring Holyfield he looks smaller than Holyfield, who was a small heavyweight.

If Quarry was fat at 240 would you consider him a big heavyweight? There old sparring footage of him later in his career listed at 233, completely shot, but he just looked like a porky heavyweight today.

He’s in the grey shirt, dude he’s sparring is 6 ft 4 https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/22277

https://********/wTiTfFtWJ4E

He doesn’t even look that fat

- -You confusing athleticism with fighting again?

Unless you're of the ilk of SissyBoyFloyd, boxing's greatest are fighters pure and simple.

Nobody ever matches Joe Louis and Dempsey in the 100meter sprint or high jump or cares to.

C'mon now!