Who was the best defensive fighter of all time?

[Caught Square]

Apart from Chuvalo almost killing him, thats a load of bollocks. Foley hit him with some hsots (all fighters get hit) bt none of those shots meant much and Ali pretty much controlled everything. The cards going into the stoppage were a plain robbery, I think one of those idiots had it a draw. Plus, Ali fought offensively almost the entirety of that fight because he knew Foley had nothing in his arsenal. ALi got hit because he wanted to stay in range for his own shots.

Let's not act like Mayweather ever came close to the grace and reflexes of Ali. I will not comment on this matter further as some of you turn every thread into a Floyd v all debate. I'm here to talk boxing ,not just one boxer.

Ok no problem we can keep it purely about Ali and if he is tier 1 in defence....

So you said Ali was barely touched from 64-67 then in the next post said Chuvalo almost killed him (1966), how can he be tier 1 in defence if he almost got killed by someone in his prime years?

[Mr.MojoRisin']

Pep is my top pick

[soul_survivor]

Ok no problem we can keep it purely about Ali and if he is tier 1 in defence....

So you said Ali was barely touched from 64-67 then in the next post said Chuvalo almost killed him (1966), how can he be tier 1 in defence if he almost got killed by someone in his prime years?

I meant to type almost killed him to the body, which is what you were talking about. Thats a fair point. NO one is perfect. Even Pep had to go to war or Whitaker had difficult fights. It happens. If one guy managed to rip him to the body, and if you actually watch the right, you will see Ali grabbing him and letting him punch him to the body while he bad mouths the guy lol

Ali could have moved a lot more against Chuvalo but he forced a situation where he wanted to force a stoppage. Chuvalo obliged. The two had a very underrated fight.

even then, Ali outlanded the guy by huge margins, avoided almost all shots to the head and won almost every round.

[The Old LefHook]

Many boxers are in contention for these laurels, we all know who they are and some have already been mentioned.

Personally I favor those boxers who have a deep medicine bag of defensive skills over those I see staying evasive mainly through natural athleticism. In the first category I place folk like Benitiez, Mayweather and Whitaker; in the second Ali, Leonard and Jones, whose extraordinary gifts and reflexes allowed them to take far fewer punches in their primes than most.

All three of the latter were defensive bums once they lost the natural reflexes of youth--they did not know anything, they did not have deep medicine bags of knowledge. The loss of their youthful reflexes proved this beyond a doubt to me.

Whereas a man like Mayweather can fight into his late thirties and still keep almost all his defensive prowess. This is because his medicine bag is deep. He loses a little something because he too had extraordinary gifts of speed and reflex which have obviously lessened.

Yet the most complete fighters of the group (in their primes) were Ali and Leonard because they did it against stellar competition and took all challenges. Ali even managed to become one of the greatest heavyweights ever all over again in his second career. He had unsuspected gifts of character that kicked in once he lost his youthful gifts.

Only a granite chin is capable of the latter. That is why Leonard could not revive a great career. Though he had a good chin it was not quite good enough for that. Ali was a punishment taking machine in his latter career. Leonard never wanted that, though he got some of it before he wised up for good and stayed healthy.

[Anthony342]

So sounds like they should be ranked:

Pep
Whitaker
Locche.

[Canelo and GGG]

Whitaker is top 1 for me no daubt ,the way he stay low on his legs to improve upperboddy movement is magic ,also pure talent in this man is unbelivable

Also i will put Oscar De la Hoya in 2 tier ,dude was catching punches like he was playing ****ing Baseball.

[hyo]

I disagree there, while the fight lasted Zora Foley couldn't miss with the right hand, Mildenberger couldn't miss with the left hand and Chuvalo's body shots put him in hospital.

These fights were all between 64-67. He won all these fights clearly because he was amazing in other areas but not defensively.

In highlights it would look amazing because of the way he gracefully dodged jabs at times but looking at the fight as a whole he got hit quite frequently, especially to be tier 1 of defence. Overall i'd say his defence was good but not great.

No.

After the second Liston fight and before his ban, Ali was untouchable, look at Ali v Williams he hardly got touched, let alone clean on the chin.

Mayweather, would block a lot but he didn't have the skill to dodge and slip and be untouchable.

[Caught Square]

No.

After the second Liston fight and before his ban, Ali was untouchable, look at Ali v Williams he hardly got touched, let alone clean on the chin.

Mayweather, would block a lot but he didn't have the skill to dodge and slip and be untouchable.

The Williams fight was a great performance which lasted 1 round, it's like saying look at the 2nd Liston fight...

I gave three examples between the period you mentioned where he clearly wasn't untouchable and one of those he was sent to the hospital. It's up to you but I personally felt he got hit too frequently in those fights to be top tier in defence.

Amazing fighter just not amazing defensively IMO when looking at full fights rather than only remembering the eye catching parts.

[rightsideup]

Based on fighters I have witnessed I find whittaker one of the more entertaining defensive fighters and agree with all of the fighters mentioned so far. One not known for defense primarily but when focused and close to the prime of his career was roberto duran.

[Rockybigblower]

Arthur abraham