Who was the best defensive fighter of all time?

[hyo]

Personally have Nicolino Loche at the top. But I see loads of fans saying otherwise ( Ali, Mayweather, Whittaker, Pep, Toney...)

[soul_survivor]

Pep was better surely? Fought against better opposition too.

Can't say no to prime Ali or whitaker either.

Below that you get into second tier defensive fighters. Still great but not those 3.

[hyo]

Pep was better surely? Fought against better opposition too.

Can't say no to prime Ali or whitaker either.

Below that you get into second tier defensive fighters. Still great but not those 3.

Pep definitely was better all round but in terms of pure defence he (Loche) was simply untouchable, unhuman- like reflexes and an he had his arms at his sides during barrages of punches.

[soul_survivor]

Pep definitely was better all round but in terms of pure defence he (Loche) was simply untouchable, unhuman- like reflexes and an he had his arms at his sides during barrages of punches.

So did Pep a lot of times too. Nico had great reflexes though and at the end of the day, the bets fighters are judges against the best opponents. Pep had better opponents.

I think the great defensive fighters can be divided into 2 tiers:

Tier 1
Pep
Ali
Whitaker
Benny L

Tier 2
Nico
Mayweather
Hopkins
Benitez

Obviously more names could be added, possibly the likes of Leonard and even Jones? Prime welterweight Robinson?

[Caught Square]

So did Pep a lot of times too. Nico had great reflexes though and at the end of the day, the bets fighters are judges against the best opponents. Pep had better opponents.

I think the great defensive fighters can be divided into 2 tiers:

Tier 1
Pep
Ali
Whitaker
Benny L

Tier 2
Nico
Mayweather
Hopkins
Benitez

Obviously more names could be added, possibly the likes of Leonard and even Jones? Prime welterweight Robinson?

How is Ali a tier above Floyd defensively?

[Humean]

Not the footage of Benny Leonard to properly judge him.

Floyd Mayweather Jr is the best for me. Roy Jones Jr certainly took very few clean punches during his prime.

[soul_survivor]

How is Ali a tier above Floyd defensively?

At his absolute best he was barely touched, let alone hit by square shots. His best years are from 64-67, no one came close to hitting him then. He beat the most feared puncher in the sports history at that point and when he turned it on again ,a decade later, he did the same.

All of that while waying well above 200lb yet moving with the fleet of foot of a lightweight.

Mayweather could only dream of moving like that. He could only dream of those reflexes. Mayweather takes puncheso n his arms and hsoulders all the time, prime or otherwise. Thats a form of defence but not better than the type Al ior WHitaker used, where guys would miss them.

[Caught Square]

At his absolute best he was barely touched, let alone hit by square shots. His best years are from 64-67, no one came close to hitting him then. He beat the most feared puncher in the sports history at that point and when he turned it on again ,a decade later, he did the same.

All of that while waying well above 200lb yet moving with the fleet of foot of a lightweight.

Mayweather could only dream of moving like that. He could only dream of those reflexes. Mayweather takes puncheso n his arms and hsoulders all the time, prime or otherwise. Thats a form of defence but not better than the type Al ior WHitaker used, where guys would miss them.

I disagree there, while the fight lasted Zora Foley couldn't miss with the right hand, Mildenberger couldn't miss with the left hand and Chuvalo's body shots put him in hospital.

These fights were all between 64-67. He won all these fights clearly because he was amazing in other areas but not defensively.

In highlights it would look amazing because of the way he gracefully dodged jabs at times but looking at the fight as a whole he got hit quite frequently, especially to be tier 1 of defence. Overall i'd say his defence was good but not great.

[soul_survivor]

I disagree there, while the fight lasted Zora Foley couldn't miss with the right hand, Mildenberger couldn't miss with the left hand and Chuvalo's body shots put him in hospital.

These fights were all between 64-67. He won all these fights clearly because he was amazing in other areas but not defensively.

In highlights it would look amazing because of the way he gracefully dodged jabs at times but looking at the fight as a whole he got hit quite frequently, especially to be tier 1 of defence. Overall i'd say his defence was good but not great.

Apart from Chuvalo almost killing him, thats a load of bollocks. Foley hit him with some hsots (all fighters get hit) bt none of those shots meant much and Ali pretty much controlled everything. The cards going into the stoppage were a plain robbery, I think one of those idiots had it a draw. Plus, Ali fought offensively almost the entirety of that fight because he knew Foley had nothing in his arsenal. ALi got hit because he wanted to stay in range for his own shots.

Let's not act like Mayweather ever came close to the grace and reflexes of Ali. I will not comment on this matter further as some of you turn every thread into a Floyd v all debate. I'm here to talk boxing ,not just one boxer.

[NChristo]

Marlon Starling could do with a mention, Miguel Lora if you like the flashy style and Hilario Zapata was real ****ing good.