Joe Louis vs Ali, Liston, Frazier, and Foreman?

[Bipolar Hero]

Many experts still rank Joe Louis as the greatest Heavyweight of all time, so how would Joe Louis in his prime have done against Ali, Liston, Frazier, and Foreman?

[The Old LefHook]

In general, I believe he would not have the footwork to beat Ali, though there is always the possibility he might trap him on the ropes or time something perfectly. The other three he can hit with some regularity, and he hits hard enough to hurt or knock them out if he can avoid that fate for himself. I also believe he was not quite as durable as any of the other four in the ring. The punches of Schmeling slowly devastated him, and Schmeling I would call a medium puncher, a decent punch but nothing spectacular, somewhat average for power. Make no mistake, Louis had power, and he was a great combination puncher.

[Joe Beamish]

Louis didn't train for the first Schmeling fight and also had no idea what to expect.

Louis would have slaughtered Liston, Frazier and Foreman and defeated Ali in a competitive but clear decision.

[Elroy The Great]

ali, foreman > joe

[The Old LefHook]

Louis never fought anyone in his prime with remotely the punch of Frazier, Liston or Foreman. Frazier was relentless like a heavyweight Henry Armstrong. Louis never faced anything remotely like it, unless you want to count Marciano when Joe was old and shot, and we know the result of that. They say Baer had a giant punch, but we know he was not particularly good at landing it against A opposition. And if you want to talk about playboys who didn't train, Max would be the King Kong of them all, and never landed significantly on Louis, as I remember.

One thing about prime Louis is that he will always be trying to hit you. He can hit you in close or from a distance, and he can hit while being hit. Like Duran, he could launch punches while in the middle of taking one.

There is not a man of the four other than Ali who will bother trying to out maneuver Louis. Foreman, the prime sloppiest of the four, will simply slug it out. Joe's superior accuracy (he was amazingly accurate) could mean instant trouble for Foreman. But George has great whiskers and I expect Joe's chin to be tested as well. By almost all accounts, George is the heaviest handed heavyweight champion who ever lived. Prime George would have a handful of rounds before he tired to take Joe out, otherwise Louis would take him apart once he got super-sloppy.

Liston is more of a controlled fighter, not sloppy, and I am convinced he punched harder than generally given credit for. He will land. Louis will land, too. I do not see an easy walkover here for either man. Expect each to be at least rocked.

Frazier will present a huge problem for Louis. Constant motion made Frazier anything but an easy target, and he threw a lot of punches himself. As long as you cannot do to Frazier what Foreman did (and I do not believe Louis can manhandle him that way) Frazier will present a giant problem. Another hard fight I see as an essential toss-up.

Contrary to the other poster, I expect Ali to slaughter Louis. Joe will be hit straight in the face so easily and so many times right away that it will affect him for the rest of the fight. He is simply too easy a target for the fleet one, who will not even be hit much. If he figures he has to, Ali can fight louis the way he fought Liston I, and there is not a thing Joe could do about it but follow him around getting hammered from a distance the way Sonny did. Ali would TKO Louis in my opinion.

The rope-a-dope would be a suicidal tactic against Louis, however, who dreams of getting Ali on the ropes where his accuracy has a chance to land something big

[billeau2]

Louis didn't train for the first Schmeling fight and also had no idea what to expect.

Louis would have slaughtered Liston, Frazier and Foreman and defeated Ali in a competitive but clear decision.

How would you confirm your statement above? I have never heard such a thing. Its hard to imagine Louis not training for a bout. Not trying to doubt your verocity but have never heard such a thing said about Louis. What I observed and was told was that
Schmeling found a glitch involving a tendency Louis had dropping his right after a jab. Schmeling studied tape and was able to execute.

[billeau2]

Louis never fought anyone in his prime with remotely the punch of Frazier, Liston or Foreman. Frazier was relentless like a heavyweight Henry Armstrong. Louis never faced anything remotely like it, unless you want to count Marciano when Joe was old and shot, and we know the result of that. They say Baer had a giant punch, but we know he was not particularly good at landing it against A opposition. And if you want to talk about playboys who didn't train, Max would be the King Kong of them all, and never landed significantly on Louis, as I remember.

One thing about prime Louis is that he will always be trying to hit you. He can hit you in close or from a distance, and he can hit while being hit. Like Duran, he could launch punches while in the middle of taking one.

There is not a man of the four other than Ali who will bother trying to out maneuver Louis. Foreman, the prime sloppiest of the four, will simply slug it out. Joe's superior accuracy (he was amazingly accurate) could mean instant trouble for Foreman. But George has great whiskers and I expect Joe's chin to be tested as well. By almost all accounts, George is the heaviest handed heavyweight champion who ever lived. Prime George would have a handful of rounds before he tired to take Joe out, otherwise Louis would take him apart once he got super-sloppy.

Liston is more of a controlled fighter, not sloppy, and I am convinced he punched harder than generally given credit for. He will land. Louis will land, too. I do not see an easy walkover here for either man. Expect each to be at least rocked.

Frazier will present a huge problem for Louis. Constant motion made Frazier anything but an easy target, and he threw a lot of punches himself. As long as you cannot do to Frazier what Foreman did (and I do not believe Louis can manhandle him that way) Frazier will present a giant problem. Another hard fight I see as an essential toss-up.

Contrary to the other poster, I expect Ali to slaughter Louis. Joe will be hit straight in the face so easily and so many times right away that it will affect him for the rest of the fight. He is simply too easy a target for the fleet one, who will not even be hit much. If he figures he has to, Ali can fight louis the way he fought Liston I, and there is not a thing Joe could do about it but follow him around getting hammered from a distance the way Sonny did. Ali would TKO Louis in my opinion.

The rope-a-dope would be a suicidal tactic against Louis, however, who dreams of getting Ali on the ropes where his accuracy has a chance to land something big

Wow! Great post Lefty... I don't know where I come down on this one yet, still thinking about it. Frazier never fought such a puncher as Louis. Louis fought Marciano late in the game, so we have to take that fight somewhat lightly. Marciano would be a somewhat similar style to Frazier, though there are marked differences. Frazier was more accurate, Marciano slightly more relentless.

[soul_survivor]

Louis had slow, dragging feet. Ali would run rings around him.

Louis could be kod yet he never faced a puncher like foreman or frazier. Foreman certainly would beat him but Louis best shot is frazier.

[Tom Cruise]

The big problem for Joe vs Liston, Frazier and Foreman seems to be durability. He could be hurt, mostly flash KD's in his prime, and KO'd at the beginning and end of his career. Those are 3 of the biggest punchers ever at HW. However. Its worth remembering that all 3 have also been hurt badly before also, and Joe Louis is one of the great punchers at HW himself.

His boxing could seem lethargic at times, but he was also razor sharp when openings presented themselves. He was brilliant at setting traps and manouvering his opponents. He was also one of the most difficult fighters to exchange punches with that ive ever seen. He has a bit of the JMM in that respect. He will very rarely go fully defensive and allow you to unload, he will always keep his eyes on the targets, and his feet in position to punch.

These are all top 10 ATGs, and i think it can be difficult breaking down who would win. I would not be confident betting against Louis find his target vs any of these 3. Neither would i be confident betting on them not getting to him.

Ali, imo, is the best H2H heavyweight who has ever lived, and he has the style, toughness and heart to nullify almost all of the Louis assets. Ken Norton had immense success later in Ali's career jabbing with the jabber, which is a big strength of Louis', but that was after Alis legs had slowed drastically. Vs the prime Ali, i can only have one man as the favourite.

[Tom Cruise]

Some underestimating of Louis' ability as always in this thread IMO.

Dont forget what he could do to the other guy when judging these fights.