Do you rank Larry Holmes above Rocky Marciano?

[StarshipTrooper]

once again, its only size ''whoring'' because i killed yet another myth.

my work here is completed. let me know if there are anymore myths i can debunk

In other words you got nothing. Thought so. So many things you COULD have looked at if you had more than three brain cells to rub together, but instead you chose to flog the illegitimate and irrelevant argument that apparently you live and die on. Very sad.

You're dismissed Elroy

[billeau2]

1st paragraph i used for e toilet paper.

when i mentioned larrys size....A RELEVANT STAT, fan boy supreme got all hot and mean. so, i challenged him and any other groupie to tell us all of the names mr scientific angles beat that fit larrys size.

when your bitter kind failed, out comes the gayest replies known to man.

cong****.

Groupie of whom exactly? Who did I even pick to win the fight? You do know who I think would win this fight don't you? since I am a "groupie."

And your original inanity was to propose that reach would befuddle marciano, then you added size as a qualifier. You were then asked to give proof of those assertions and thats when you got salty diaper pete. Then you asked me to get the data for you, so after telling you to get off your own duff, I put together a thread for you showing people who look carefully at Marciano, both from a technical point of view, and otherwise.

You were so owned at that point you went into inane mode and started babbling about giants and people needing to show Marciano beating giants...I guess because Holmes was such a large heavyweight right?

Marciano fought guys who were clearly in the same range of talent and size as Holmes....

Sorry, giving inanity a "pass" on this sight has the effect of pissing off informed posters. You don't get a pass.

By the way, again: did I ever say Marciano would beat Holmes? Take a look diaper pete.

[billeau2]

I think Larry has many more options in the ring than Rock had.
Larry could get off on lateral moves and come in & out and he did have nice quick head movement and could counter punch off that.
He learned how to deal with a fighter backing up willing by working with Ali as a young up and comer.
However Rock doesn't get his dues because the fights he's mostly associated with are against Charles, Walcott and Moore all hall of famers. Yes Archie was older but after the Marciano loss he went 39-2-2 not exactly in a rockin' chair!
Rock was very hard to hit solidly and his power would move a fighter off balance and then he'd capitalize off that method.
There was more to Marciano than the novice fan understands.
He didn't go low by the waist bend he broke down at the knees and that gave him the overhands along with the wide shots.
He would also goat his opponents into throwing right hands by leaning out to his right but his counter right to the heart or kidney or over the top as a counter was very effective.
This guys proportions were incredible, his calfs and forearms were huge and his muscle mass was thick but not high peaked.
His endurance was uncanny and in the ring he was a mean man.
For that matter outside the ring wasn't a place to mess with him either.
He was a much better athlete than most know and was a very good baseball player he just wasn't going to box like Joe Louis!

Ray

Jeez Ray...I had written a thoughtful response to this post and lost it before I sent it to you.

It seems to me that unless people take a moment to look carefully at Marciano, the tendency is to either look at him as incredible, or awful. it is particularly egregious to not give Marciano his due.

[StarshipTrooper]

Groupie of whom exactly? Who did I even pick to win the fight? You do know who I think would win this fight don't you? since I am a "groupie."

And your original inanity was to propose that reach would befuddle marciano, then you added size as a qualifier. You were then asked to give proof of those assertions and thats when you got salty diaper pete. Then you asked me to get the data for you, so after telling you to get off your own duff, I put together a thread for you showing people who look carefully at Marciano, both from a technical point of view, and otherwise.

You were so owned at that point you went into inane mode and started babbling about giants and people needing to show Marciano beating giants...I guess because Holmes was such a large heavyweight right?

Marciano fought guys who were clearly in the same range of talent and size as Holmes....

Sorry, giving inanity a "pass" on this sight has the effect of pissing off informed posters. You don't get a pass.

By the way, again: did I ever say Marciano would beat Holmes? Take a look diaper pete.

Funny thing is, if he had kept to the point about reach (and backed it up with some relevant conclusions) he would have had at least a plausible argument. But he couldn't do that, could he? He went straight to Size Whore Land and never left. The one thing he hit on that would have been a valid argument he treated as an afterthought in his haste to derail the thread with irrelevancies :dunno9:

[Ray Corso]

Today's young boxing fans are as one dimensional as most fighters are today.
The excellent boxers that use the blue print set up by Mr. Nappi when he coached the 76 Olympic team which was the best team of all time prefers straight up form a moving style with fast combinations.
Marciano was always refered to as "crude" however he did work the crouch style very well and punched out of very very well and that is a technique + method that is NOT easy to perform.
He certainly deserves high marks for the long hours in the gym and the years of service to be successful using this very difficult style that was his only way to succeed.
Most fans don't see the art in Dempsey to Marciano to Frazier then Tyson. These are men who aren't going to make 175lbs so heavyweight is their division. Their not boxing like Joe Louis or Ali so getting low and pressing the action while counter moving and counter punching become their method!

Marciano was a fighter not a boxer, a damn good hard hitting fighter who was not easy to hit.

Ray

[billeau2]

Funny thing is, if he had kept to the point about reach (and backed it up with some relevant conclusions) he would have had at least a plausible argument. But he couldn't do that, could he? He went straight to Size Whore Land and never left. The one thing he hit on that would have been a valid argument he treated as an afterthought in his haste to derail the thread with irrelevancies :dunno9:

Yup. Also, if there is not always the assumption of a hidden agenda. For example my opinion, as stated in the thread, is that is an extremely hard fight to call and I have no idea who would win!

If one looks at precedent and the abilities of both men its actually a hard fight to call, in my opinion.

[billeau2]

Today's young boxing fans are as one dimensional as most fighters are today.
The excellent boxers that use the blue print set up by Mr. Nappi when he coached the 76 Olympic team which was the best team of all time prefers straight up form a moving style with fast combinations.
Marciano was always refered to as "crude" however he did work the crouch style very well and punched out of very very well and that is a technique + method that is NOT easy to perform.
He certainly deserves high marks for the long hours in the gym and the years of service to be successful using this very difficult style that was his only way to succeed.
Most fans don't see the art in Dempsey to Marciano to Frazier then Tyson. These are men who aren't going to make 175lbs so heavyweight is their division. Their not boxing like Joe Louis or Ali so getting low and pressing the action while counter moving and counter punching become their method!

Marciano was a fighter not a boxer, a damn good hard hitting fighter who was not easy to hit.

Ray

Ray where do you see Hollyfield? As a boxer/puncher? or as borrowing more from the relentless style of the men you mentioned above? On the one hand, he was relentless in his activity level and could press and finish exceptionally. On the other hand, he showed real skills as a boxer, setting up his punches extremely well. When he listened to his corner and boxed Bowe, it was the contest he won in the three they had.

[Elroy The Great]

Marciano fought guys who were clearly in the same range of talent and size as Holmes.....

so, NAME THEM.


''no, YOU prove MY point FOR me. im just here to click enter on shlt that sounds good in my empty dust collector.''
~short guy in the group

[billeau2]

so, NAME THEM.


''no, YOU prove MY point FOR me. im just here to click enter on shlt that sounds good in my empty dust collector.''
~short guy in the group

Hold your head in shame a bit longer... Apologize to Ray yet? You should. Actually you should have kept the other alt: even though it was a idiotic as you it had slightly more credability.

Holmes weight for the Ali fight...he was probably a little bigger for that fight but around an average weight for him:

http://www.nytimes.com/books/98/10/2...lmesstops.html

Holmes, sleek and fit at 211 1/2 pounds

Louis Walcott and Charles were a little smaller than Holmes weight wise, but Charles particularly had superior reach. We are talking about a difference in weight of around ten pounds....Big Deal! Louis was the exception as he weighed about what Holmes weighed, even though this was not a good thing.

So there you go now go crawl back in mom's basement

[Elroy The Great]

Hold your head in shame a bit longer... Apologize to Ray yet? You should. Actually you should have kept the other alt: even though it was a idiotic as you it had slightly more credability.

Holmes weight for the Ali fight...he was probably a little bigger for that fight but around an average weight for him:

http://www.nytimes.com/books/98/10/2...lmesstops.html

Holmes, sleek and fit at 211 1/2 pounds

Louis Walcott and Charles were a little smaller than Holmes weight wise, but Charles particularly had superior reach. We are talking about a difference in weight of around ten pounds....Big Deal! Louis was the exception as he weighed about what Holmes weighed, even though this was not a good thing.

So there you go now go crawl back in mom's basement

pure gobbledyg00k. you didnt disappoint. the best part of it all was the UNsult 4 year olds would use