What if Ali was never exiled?

[muslimer12]

Education is a terrible thing to waste ! You cant even do paragraphs so you telling me you cant understand what i wrote doesnt shock me ,hopefully you are about 18 and not even 21 yet

Im still hoping you are a troll tbh

[Zaroku]

An interesting question, but any answers would be guesses. He lost his best years, but who knows if he may have been caught by a lucky punch and KTFO like PAC or other fighters.

I call this type of speculation fun, but meaningless. "It is what is is, and it's gonna be, what it's gonna be."

I was in LA headed to San Jose, my buddy Steve called me as I was gonna get on the 405. He called to ask when I would get there, he delayed me 3 seconds. An impatient fool went around me, he wanted his place in line. I saw two rice divks TBone the car that went around me because he was in a hurry. That call probably saved my life. That fool got flattened in front of my eyes.

Better him than me.

My point? You never can predict a different future with 100 % certainty.

[juggernaut666]

Im still hoping you are a troll tbh

I wasnt aware that trolls post facts and direct quotes and source materials ? Maybe you are 13 and thought the term "TROLL " was an actual big grey monster that tries to interact over the internet???????????

[juggernaut666]

An interesting question, but any answers would be guesses. He lost his best years, but who knows if he may have been caught by a lucky punch and KTFO like PAC or other fighters.

I call this type of speculation fun, but meaningless. "It is what is is, and it's gonna be, what it's gonna be."

I was in LA headed to San Jose, my buddy Steve called me as I was gonna get on the 405. He called to ask when I would get there, he delayed me 3 seconds. An impatient fool went around me, he wanted his place in line. I saw two rice divks TBone the car that went around me because he was in a hurry. That call probably saved my life. That fool got flattened in front of my eyes.

Better him than me.

My point? You never can predict a different future with 100 % certainty.

Well thats why you take all the possible outcomes and all of wins/losses and strengths and weaknesses / and all variables time period ,opposition ...etc and take the best educated guess .

Point in case ...Ali vs Marciano .....where the computer simulation had Marciano winning bc he won more outcomes. I dont agree with that outcome ,but its plausible .This simulation was also excluding his 70's fights bc it was done beforehand ,and i have no doubt if you added the Frazier and Foreman fights to the variable outcomes vs Marciano ........ Ali wins hands down .

[muslimer12]

I wasnt aware that trolls post facts and direct quotes and source materials ? Maybe you are 13 and thought the term "TROLL " was an actual big grey monster that tries to interact over the internet???????????

The thing is what you said were not facts..... you said frazier should of won the second fight verse Ali? thats not a fact, you said it was cuz you have to take the belt from the champ, but in the second fight frazier was no longer the champ so i dont get what you are saying. You said that some historian agreed with you, then quoted some long paragraph that has nothing to do with what we were debating. I already knew that Ali had fundamental flaws, but in his prime he was so fast with his reflexes he could get away with it, Roy jones was similar in that way. You said because of this you think frazier would of won, but the thing is, the slower version and slower reflexes version of Ali fought frazier already in 71, and Frazier won in a VERY close fight, and that was Ali with little footwork or movement, it is only logical to believe that a faster version of Ali would of won the fight. I thought you were a troll cuz you are basically saying slower/fatter versions of boxers are better than their younger faster selves, which makes absolutely no sense.

[Zaroku]

Well thats why you take all the possible outcomes and all of wins/losses and strengths and weaknesses / and all variables time period ,opposition ...etc and take the best educated guess .

Point in case ...Ali vs Marciano .....where the computer simulation had Marciano winning bc he won more outcomes. I dont agree with that outcome ,but its plausible .This simulation was also excluding his 70's fights bc it was done beforehand ,and i have no doubt if you added the Frazier and Foreman fights to the variable outcomes vs Marciano ........ Ali wins hands down .

Too many variables. Complexity increases. We are not deal with just one input.

N! Inputs. It is like a V. It gets infinitely more complex as you move away from the center.

I work with quants guys in the office, and they are constantly changing their predictive models, some have AI programmers assisting in developing better predictive models. Too many variables as inputs. It is all a guess. Best guess.

[The Old LefHook]

Frazier would have never been a giveaway for any version of Clay or Ali. He would always be there in chugging in Clay's face for fifteen rounds because he lacked the punch to put Joe away.

As for going undefeated, I doubt that, too. He had too much ego to train hard for every opponent, and sooner or later one would have surprised him and taken a decision, only to lose the rematches, of course.

[juggernaut666]

Too many variables. Complexity increases. We are not deal with just one input.

N! Inputs. It is like a V. It gets infinitely more complex as you move away from the center.

I work with quants guys in the office, and they are constantly changing their predictive models, some have AI programmers assisting in developing better predictive models. Too many variables as inputs. It is all a guess. Best guess.

Boxing doesn't have many variables at all ,its a very simplistic set of rules which is highly limited and alls one needs to do is calculate what i stated and match the opponents up. It is not remotely like MMA setting where there are too many variables to make more of an accurate guess which why titles change frequently in that environment bc of the less strict rules.Most ppl wont break boxing down to a simple logic out come because its usually not the result they want to see ,so they use things like ATG and legends as skills for example to accommodate their angles!

At the end of the day it is a hypothesis .......EDUCATED guess !

[juggernaut666]

The thing is what you said were not facts..... you said frazier should of won the second fight verse Ali? thats not a fact, you said it was cuz you have to take the belt from the champ, but in the second fight frazier was no longer the champ so i dont get what you are saying. You said that some historian agreed with you, then quoted some long paragraph that has nothing to do with what we were debating. I already knew that Ali had fundamental flaws, but in his prime he was so fast with his reflexes he could get away with it, Roy jones was similar in that way. You said because of this you think frazier would of won, but the thing is, the slower version and slower reflexes version of Ali fought frazier already in 71, and Frazier won in a VERY close fight, and that was Ali with little footwork or movement, it is only logical to believe that a faster version of Ali would of won the fight. I thought you were a troll cuz you are basically saying slower/fatter versions of boxers are better than their younger faster selves, which makes absolutely no sense.

Ali of the 70's would not remotely struggle with Cooper ,Chuvalo or have a hard time with Mildenberger a 190 pounder who wasnt a power puncher that cut easy who Ali said was the toughest fight he had in the 1960's!

Maybe you think ALL of Foreman s trainers are liars who said Foreman was better in his 40's ? Did they make it up ? I guess so if you think an inferior version of Foreman is better than a superior one .. lol

Is Ali and Foreman liars when stating they were both better in their come backs? NO


Yes the 1970's fighter were by FAR better than Alis 1960's opponents ,thats a joke to even challenge that ! On this alone Ali would have had to adjust his skill sets to WIN ..this is common sense !


Does a life long Boxing journalist not know about his favorite fighter Ali better than you who picks Frazier over him style wise? YES


Do you not have to CONVINCINLY beat the Champion in ANY close fight? YES


Yes these are FACTS !

[Zaroku]

Boxing doesn't have many variables at all ,its a very simplistic set of rules which is highly limited and alls one needs to do is calculate what i stated and match the opponents up. It is not remotely like MMA setting where there are too many variables to make more of an accurate guess which why titles change frequently in that environment bc of the less strict rules.Most ppl wont break boxing down to a simple logic out come because its usually not the result they want to see ,so they use things like ATG and legends as skills for example to accommodate their angles!

At the end of the day it is a hypothesis .......EDUCATED guess !

Hurt in sparring. car accident. Death of a loved one. Litigation against promotor. Ali had a draft issue right? That is already a non linear set of inputs.