What if Ali was never exiled?

[muslimer12]

He would have had a run in with a prime Frazier by 1970 if not sooner and as Foreman stated when asked if Ali vs Frazier in the 60's would have different out come hee said no ,he would have picked Frazier to win with relentless left hook that Cooper dropped him with . He also pointed out that Ali wasnt as durable in the 1960's so the odds would favor Frazier around 1968 . Stylistically Ali would have always struggled with Frazier and a prime Frazier would have been a handful ,just watch the Chuvalo or Mildenberger fights if you think Frazier wouldn't catch Ali . I do think 1974 Ali would defeat a 1960's Frazier .

Its quite possible Alis exile prolonged his career and gave him an undefeated 1960's era ,we will never know !

I rememeber foreman saying that and Ali was making a wtf face lol I think Ali would of beat Frazier for sure if not the exile. The first fight with frazier after the exile was still a very close competitive fight, Ali in his prime would of done much better. Also how can you say Ali was more durable in his 30s than 20s? Its just cuz Ali was never really hit as much in the 20s than he was in the 30s but that only shows how great he really was in the 60s, cuz he was hard to hit and even if you hit him he could take it. Frazier could land on ali here and there but it wouldnt be enough to win. watch Ali-Jones in 63, Ali was toe to toe with him the whole fight. ALso its not like Ali was significantly heavier in the 70s than the 60s. He only weighed one pound more in the Foreman fight than he did in the Liston fight.

[juggernaut666]

I rememeber foreman saying that and Ali was making a wtf face lol I think Ali would of beat Frazier for sure if not the exile. The first fight with frazier after the exile was still a very close competitive fight, Ali in his prime would of done much better. Also how can you say Ali was more durable in his 30s than 20s? Its just cuz Ali was never really hit as much in the 20s than he was in the 30s but that only shows how great he really was in the 60s, cuz he was hard to hit and even if you hit him he could take it. Frazier could land on ali here and there but it wouldnt be enough to win. watch Ali-Jones in 63, Ali was toe to toe with him the whole fight. ALso its not like Ali was significantly heavier in the 70s than the 60s. He only weighed one pound more in the Foreman fight than he did in the Liston fight.

Durability is ability to take a punch which he could do better in his 30's .Age isnt a skill ,actual skills are and nothing tops smarts either which he was in the 70's bc he had to be against better opponents. Theres a clear physical physique differance from Ali of the 60's to 70's !Foreman was correct and knew what he was talking bout! Running around the ring simply doesnt beat better overall timed punching ,better accuracy and smarts combined with a stronger body much like 1990's Foreman compared to 70's .

Ali was nearly 220 in the Foreman fight! He didnt need to be faster ,he needed to be stronger that night and out last mid rounds to take Foreman out which he did.The 1960's 200/210 Ali would not have won ,he wasnt as smart or durable . Foreman of the 70's was much more dangerous than out of prime Liston!

[muslimer12]

Durability is ability to take a punch which he could do better in his 30's .Age isnt a skill ,actual skills are and nothing tops smarts either which he was in the 70's bc he had to be against better opponents !Foreman was correct and knew what he was talking bout!

Ali was nearly 220 in the Foreman fight! He didnt need to be faster ,he needed to be stronger that night and out last mid rounds to take Foreman out which he did.The 1960's 200/210 Ali would not have won ,he wasnt as smart or durable . Foreman of the 70's was much more dangerous than out of prime Liston!

lol name me other fighters who were more durable in past their prime than in their prime lmao just stop. That makes absolutely no sense. Ali beat Foreman past his prime, and ali was 213 in the foreman fight, he was 212 in the liston fight. Show me proof that Ali was smarter and more durable in the 70s than in the 60s. It would of been worse for foreman if he faced 60s Ali. I dont know why we are even talking about this, Ali would of won regardless, and he won after his exile. If all you got is "foreman said so" than you dont have anything.

[juggernaut666]

lol name me other fighters who were more durable in past their prime than in their prime lmao just stop. That makes absolutely no sense. Ali beat Foreman past his prime, and ali was 213 in the foreman fight, he was 212 in the liston fight. Show me proof that Ali was smarter and more durable in the 70s than in the 60s. It would of been worse for foreman if he faced 60s Ali. I dont know why we are even talking about this, Ali would of won regardless, and he won after his exile. If all you got is "foreman said so" than you dont have anything.

Prime is not age ,its time period when one is at ones best. Foreman is a perfect example ,unless you know more than Archie Moore,Angelo Dundee who also said Foreman was better in his 40's please enlighten me how 70's Foreman is better than when he was stronger ,smarter and much better chin at 250 plus? Ali himself admits to being better in the 70's so now your just being opinionated ,which show me where 60's Ali had better counter punching and was the overall better fighter?Prove to me Frazier loses to Ali in the 60's ? See how this works? If you cant see Ali beating better 70's fighters makes him the better fighter thats on you.

Ali was 217 !

[muslimer12]

Prime is not age ,its time period when one is at ones best. Foreman is a perfect example ,unless you know more than Archie Moore,Angelo Dundee who also said Foreman was better in his 40's please enlighten me how 70's Foreman is better than when he was stronger ,smarter and much better chin at 250 plus? Ali himself admits to being better in the 70's so now your just being opinionated ,which show me where 60's Ali had better counter punching and wads the overall better fighter? See how this works? If you cant see Ali beating better 70's fighters makes him the better fighter thats on you.

Ali was 217 !

Ali said the 60s version of himself would of beat the 70s version of himself.........obviously lol and no foreman in the 90s was not better than he was in the 70s. He was much slower, he wasnt a beast like he was in the 70s. Holyfield would of lost to the 70s version of foreman. but foreman did have better stamina in his older age, but thats cuz he wasnt as explosive and didnt go for the knockout as often as the energetic 70s foreman. This is pretty basic. 60s Ali was faster, better stamina, better footwork, faster counter punches, same chin, same durability, and much better head movement. Dundee trained foreman in the90s so ofcourse he will say he is a better fighter now. Also are you really going to bring up archie moore lmao is that the only other boxer you could think of? If thats it, the one boxer in history who is KNOWN for being unique as he accomplished the most in his older age. But the difference is Moore was not more durable in age lmao that makes absolutely no sense. No fighter takes punches better as they age, unless they were killing themselves making a certain weight or something. Moore just accomplished more at older age he wasnt more durable, he wasnt taking punches better or anything, it was the same old archie.

Im not arguing over 3-4 pounds with you, when ali was taking training camp seriously he was very close to his weight in the 60s, but when he wasnt focused he would weigh more, thats not a good thing.

[juggernaut666]

Ali said the 60s version of himself would of beat the 70s version of himself.........obviously lol and no foreman in the 90s was not better than he was in the 70s. He was much slower, he wasnt a beast like he was in the 70s. Holyfield would of lost to the 70s version of foreman. but foreman did have better stamina in his older age, but thats cuz he wasnt as explosive and didnt go for the knockout as often as the energetic 70s foreman. This is pretty basic. 60s Ali was faster, better stamina, better footwork, faster counter punches, same chin, same durability, and much better head movement. Dundee trained foreman in the90s so ofcourse he will say he is a better fighter now. Also are you really going to bring up archie moore lmao is that the only other boxer you could think of? If thats it, the one boxer in history who is KNOWN for being unique as he accomplished the most in his older age. But the difference is Moore was not more durable in age lmao that makes absolutely no sense. No fighter takes punches better as they age, unless they were killing themselves making a certain weight or something. Moore just accomplished more at older age he wasnt more durable, he wasnt taking punches better or anything, it was the same old archie.

Im not arguing over 3-4 pounds with you, when ali was taking training camp seriously he was very close to his weight in the 60s, but when he wasnt focused he would weigh more, thats not a good thing.

Ali clearly states the differance between his former self after the 71 Quarry fight ! I dont need Alis OWN words ,i have eyes !

Moore was 5'9 /5'11 ,short fighters doht have long prime years ,Frazier/Marciano/Tyson !

Age has nothing to do with taking punches weight does combined with how many punches one took throughout there career....did Holmes ever get knocked down fighting a decade more after Tyson? Foreman of 1990's would never had been dropped by a sub 210 pounder with a 25% k.o percentage ,to insinuate the sloppy POOR stamina Foreman is better is false ,anyone that actually studies boxing beyond hype will know why Dundee said 40 year old Foreman gives Ali a better fight ,Archie Moore, was Foremans trainer so im not even sure what your ranting about Moore, taking punches ? Foreman's trainers , Dundee Moore, and Clancy all thought Foreman to be better in his second comeback the end!

If you dont think there is a differance between being closer to 210 than 220 you simply lack comprehension of how weight can effect a fightand you cant argue over what Ali weighed bc you were wrong there too,you are just revising history ,i gave you actual facts from credible trainers you just following the rest of casual fans that THINK Ali in the 60's was the more effective fighter ,and you know thats false when even Monte Coxx ,boxings biggest Nostalgic sports writer and biggest Ali fan is in agreement with me !

"As a boxer Ali was physically gifted, but fundamentally flawed. He did not hold his hands properly, he often held them low and he held his right hand out to the side when he jabbed making him vulnerable to a counter jab. He was also vulnerable to a left hook throughout his career with his rear guard out and away from his face. To make matters worse he dropped his right hand before throwing his right uppercut from the outside making himself even more vulnerable to the left hook, something exploited by Joe Frazier. Muhammad leaned away from punches, a stylistic flaw that could be exploited by a master at feinting, which is something Ali never had to face in his career. Ali never punched to the body except with a very rare jab. Defensively Ali did not know how to block punches. He did not know how to block a jab, as he did not hold his rear hand in proper position. He did not know how to block punches at all except to cover up against the ropes. He did not know how to block a left hook. Anyone doubting this need only watch the tapes of his three fights with Joe Frazier. Ali knew the left hook was coming. Yet he did not block them. He did not know how. Ali also did not know how to fight as an aggressor and was at his best taking apart opponents with lightning quick combinations as they came to him." M. Coxx

Monte Coxx is a LEGIT sports writer / Boxing historian who specializes in past time fighters ,particularly ,Ali and Joe Louis !

The above is why i would give Frazier the edge at any point pre 1973 , and i think Frazier won the 2nd fight regardless bc i actually look at body shots and what punches actually land . You also have to beat the champion ,Frazier pressured him the entire fight landing the more significant blows .

[Ray Corso]

Ali lost his best years because of the exile there's no debate on that. Ali shutting Liston down in the first fight was Ali at his best in every way.
I don't know if his history is altered if he fights through his ban years but I know they would have been his best after his early years.
Ali was about speed and distance and perception. He could hurt his opponents with punches they couldn't see and his unorthodox style of avoiding head shots frustrated his opponents and lead them into his offense once he established distance.
None of these methods were employed once he got older, slower and heavier!
That's when he began to take shots that took a toll on his health. He had a great will that lead to a great chin but the damage was being done every bout.
No one was hit the back of the head more than Ali, refs rarely gave warnings to his opponents who fouled him regularly to try and break up clinches.
There is no doubt that the Ali who whipped Liston was the "prime" style and form that allowed him his best offense & defense.

Float like a butterfly & sting like a bee............not lay on the ropes and take abuse to be able to "outlast" a youthful slugger!
A young Big George vs a Prime Ali would have been one hell of a fight!

Ray

[ShoulderRoll]

The first fight with frazier after the exile was still a very close competitive fight, Ali in his prime would of done much better.

I agree 100% with this.

The first Frazier fight was close. You have to figure that an Ali who wasn't rusty...who had stayed active and sharp...would have performed much better.

[muslimer12]

Ali clearly states the differance between his former self after the 71 Quarry fight ! I dont need Alis OWN words ,i have eyes !

Moore was 5'9 /5'11 ,short fighters doht have long prime years ,Frazier/Marciano/Tyson !

Age has nothing to do with taking punches weight does combined with how many punches one took throughout there career....did Holmes ever get knocked down fighting a decade more after Tyson? Foreman of 1990's would never had been dropped by a sub 210 pounder with a 25% k.o percentage ,to insinuate the sloppy POOR stamina Foreman is better is false ,anyone that actually studies boxing beyond hype will know why Dundee said 40 year old Foreman gives Ali a better fight ,Archie Moore, was Foremans trainer so im not even sure what your ranting about Moore, taking punches ? Foreman's trainers , Dundee Moore, and Clancy all thought Foreman to be better in his second comeback the end!

If you dont think there is a differance between being closer to 210 than 220 you simply lack comprehension of how weight can effect a fightand you cant argue over what Ali weighed bc you were wrong there too,you are just revising history ,i gave you actual facts from credible trainers you just following the rest of casual fans that THINK Ali in the 60's was the more effective fighter ,and you know thats false when even Monte Coxx ,boxings biggest Nostalgic sports writer and biggest Ali fan is in agreement with me !

"As a boxer Ali was physically gifted, but fundamentally flawed. He did not hold his hands properly, he often held them low and he held his right hand out to the side when he jabbed making him vulnerable to a counter jab. He was also vulnerable to a left hook throughout his career with his rear guard out and away from his face. To make matters worse he dropped his right hand before throwing his right uppercut from the outside making himself even more vulnerable to the left hook, something exploited by Joe Frazier. Muhammad leaned away from punches, a stylistic flaw that could be exploited by a master at feinting, which is something Ali never had to face in his career. Ali never punched to the body except with a very rare jab. Defensively Ali did not know how to block punches. He did not know how to block a jab, as he did not hold his rear hand in proper position. He did not know how to block punches at all except to cover up against the ropes. He did not know how to block a left hook. Anyone doubting this need only watch the tapes of his three fights with Joe Frazier. Ali knew the left hook was coming. Yet he did not block them. He did not know how. Ali also did not know how to fight as an aggressor and was at his best taking apart opponents with lightning quick combinations as they came to him." M. Coxx

Monte Coxx is a LEGIT sports writer / Boxing historian who specializes in past time fighters ,particularly ,Ali and Joe Louis !

The above is why i would give Frazier the edge at any point pre 1973 , and i think Frazier won the 2nd fight regardless bc i actually look at body shots and what punches actually land . You also have to beat the champion ,Frazier pressured him the entire fight landing the more significant blows .

You might as well of typed that in a diff language cuz that made no sense lol hopefully you are a troll

[juggernaut666]

You might as well of typed that in a diff language cuz that made no sense lol hopefully you are a troll

Education is a terrible thing to waste ! You cant even do paragraphs so you telling me you cant understand what i wrote doesnt shock me ,hopefully you are about 18 and not even 21 yet