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Jeffries vs Foreman

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  • #41
    The thing that never ceases to amaze me is the thoughtless disregard by so many boxing fans of fighters from so many years ago; this whole, with today's training methods, etc. Such post-modernism arrogance is no different than those crotchedy old-timers who discount all modern fighters as being too soft to ever measure up to the all time greats they listened to on the radio. Specualtion has no place for absolutism; it's a contradiction of concepts.

    If you look at the big picture from the beginning of boxing's modern roots with Jim Corbett to present, more things balance out than most are willing to admit. Today there's more technical dieting and weight training...supposedly. Bigger men are "better athletes". Right.

    Today's modern big men only fight for 12 rounds. "but they only threw one punch a round". Says who? How preposterous is the idea that older fighters only threw 1 punch at a time all round? IT'S LUDICROUS!! Just because Dempsey was the first to through multi-punch combinations with murderous intentions that people remember doesn't mean that previous fighters hadn't done it. Where does the arrogance come from that "ancient" fighter didn't know how to throw two or three punches at a time?

    The fact is those who wrap themselves in the blanket of modern securtiy can't admit to themselves that there is a strong possibilty that we have grown softer as a society. They don't want to admit for every plus, there's a minus; for every convenience invented, for every luxury brought into the mainstream, there is something lost.

    Think about people before the 20th century who lived in un-airconditioned or unheated housing, save for the cool breeze and fireplace in uninsulated walls. Would they not look at today's modern civilization as a bunch of pansies?

    "...with the advancement of weight training and physical conditioning, blah, blah, blah...."

    Do not put your faith is such trinkets of deceit. There is a price to pay for every luxury. For everything you gain, you lose something. For every modern convenience, something is lost in terms of raw survival skills.

    We, in the 21st century, take far too much for granted. And that's gonna come back to bite us in the ass someday.
    Last edited by K-DOGG; 05-01-2006, 10:28 AM.
    The D3vil The D3vil likes this.

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    • #42
      Fellas, I have thoroughly enjoyed this exchange - intelligent comment indeed and such a refreshing change on the Net these days.

      A heck of a tough call - George got to believe all that stuff about his lack of stamina, which I personally believed was exaggerated. He made the one mistake against Ali and got it into his head that he couldn't last the course.

      He and Jeff were apart as genuine strong guys and I doubt whether either could have knocked the other out - Foreman by bruising decision over 12 or 15, Jeff by same over 20 or 25.

      A clever darn way of saying I really don't know!!

      All the best, guys,


      Mike Casey

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      • #43
        Originally posted by mike casey
        Fellas, I have thoroughly enjoyed this exchange - intelligent comment indeed and such a refreshing change on the Net these days.

        A heck of a tough call - George got to believe all that stuff about his lack of stamina, which I personally believed was exaggerated. He made the one mistake against Ali and got it into his head that he couldn't last the course.

        He and Jeff were apart as genuine strong guys and I doubt whether either could have knocked the other out - Foreman by bruising decision over 12 or 15, Jeff by same over 20 or 25.

        A clever darn way of saying I really don't know!!

        All the best, guys,


        Mike Casey
        If anyone knows...Mike Casey does...and if he doesn't know...

        Nuff said...it's officially a kunundrum.

        Thank you for your input, Mr. Casey.
        Last edited by K-DOGG; 05-01-2006, 10:31 AM.

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        • #44
          re jeffries:

          every contender & former champ he outweighed by at least 30lbs, in some cases it was as much as 60lbs. the only man he didn't outweigh by that much was Johnson, & that day he was beaten like he stole a rolex watch from the CIA.

          now, if feffries fought in an era where the guys weighed as much as him i believe he wouldn't have that nice 22-0 record before he lost to johnson. to me a guy who has such a weight advantage over small fries cannot get my respect the way some on this board seem to give him. beating a 172 lb fitz for the title & beating a very over the hill corbett does'nt give credibility to his reign, IMO.

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          • #45
            ======You make it sound like the smaller gloves favor Foreman when they really favored Jeffries. Boxing has not gotten "better" since Jeffries time, it has only gotten different. You take the fight back to those times with Foreman fighting the same way he always did, mixed with his unfamiliarity in hitting and getting hit with smaller gloves, and one is hard pressed to find any advantage that Foreman==============

            ** Foreman was more used to bareknuckled brawls than boxing. 4 oz gloves would be like manna from heaven for him. Put it this way, Foreman could walk through all of Jeff's opponents on the same card, just line em up, and boom, boom, boom, boom...Corbett is the only guy who would be problematic because of his footwork, but he never had a guy come at him that fast and the first time Foreman traps him that's all she wrote.

            Sorry, but there were great advances made starting around the time Dempsey started. The Dempsey style carried into the modern era, and tremendous ring technicians like Gibbons and Loughran refined the jab, making it a dual use offensive and defensive weapon.

            I don't disparage older fighters at all. They were technicians in their own right and tough as nails. Many of the greats would be great today without much retraining. Jeff would need a complete make over today, and his style back then didn't offer enough defense or firepower to get Foreman's respect.

            Jeffries fought in a special style developed only for him. It didn't carry over to any other fighter that I'm aware of, and is not conducive to the fast starts needed against the typical modern fighter, especially a slugger monster trying to tear your head off with both hands.
            billeau2 billeau2 likes this.

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            • #46
              Originally posted by Azteca View Post
              re jeffries:

              every contender & former champ he outweighed by at least 30lbs, in some cases it was as much as 60lbs. the only man he didn't outweigh by that much was Johnson, & that day he was beaten like he stole a rolex watch from the CIA.

              now, if feffries fought in an era where the guys weighed as much as him i believe he wouldn't have that nice 22-0 record before he lost to johnson. to me a guy who has such a weight advantage over small fries cannot get my respect the way some on this board seem to give him. beating a 172 lb fitz for the title & beating a very over the hill corbett does'nt give credibility to his reign, IMO.
              - - Talking about JJohnson beating 6 yr retired Jeffries who mistakenly had to take over 100lbs off his 330+lbs, nobody would remember JJ today.

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              • #47
                Originally posted by QueensburyRules View Post

                - - Talking about JJohnson beating 6 yr retired Jeffries who mistakenly had to take over 100lbs off his 330+lbs, nobody would remember JJ today.
                Mistakenly?? Really? Didn't seem like a mistake to me. Had he been 330+lbs who would have taken a worse beaten than he did.

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                • #48
                  15 I'd go George

                  25+ Jeffries
                  billeau2 billeau2 likes this.

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by JAB5239 View Post

                    Mistakenly?? Really? Didn't seem like a mistake to me. Had he been 330+lbs who would have taken a worse beaten than he did.
                    - - Water wet, sky blue, U dumbo noggin stuck in a bag of glue is the only mistake U know.

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by QueensburyRules View Post

                      - - Water wet, sky blue, U dumbo noggin stuck in a bag of glue is the only mistake U know.
                      Fact is Jeffries didn't mistakenly lose weight as you claimed. Not that it would have mattered as even Jeff himself said at no time could he have beaten Johnson. Am I mistaken?

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