Rocky Marciano is not a top ten all time heavyweight and I'll tell you why

[ShoulderRoll]

Did Joe Gans, Jack Johnson, and Joe Louis fight in the black style?

[Joe Beamish]

Hispanics of the Americas are not really whites, they have much injun blood which is mongol. My Nords are (or used to be) pure white. Physiologically that means the cross section of their bones is wider. Whites have bigger bones, though maybe not boners. The strongest whites will snap the wrists of the strongest blacks in arm wrestling. Bone cross sections are foundational to the limits of human strength. An abundance of fast twitch fibers is essential to boxing in the black style--and yes, there is one, so let's not get into that. Not every black fights in the black style. There is nothing particularly black about Timothy Bradley's syle, for instance. He fights like a lot of white fighters fight.

I found it a bit amazing that not a single white fighter fights successfully in the pure black style. Johnny Tapia may have been the last truly successful one.

White fighters who have an evasive defensive game generally fight in the white man's variation of it, which is stiff and straight up, using lots of legs, without the fancy frills. Two known exceptions to this are Willie Pep and Nicolino Locche, who could match any black in history for speed and fancy moves. There will of course be other exceptions, but I believe these are the two most notable. Right now, no white I can think of fights in the pure black style and is great. Tyson, of course, did not fight in the black style, but retained super-explosiveness from the style Damato forged.

The archetypal expression of the black style is found in Ali, who took many of its elements to an exaggerated level.

This is true in any sport. Where is the "black style" in any white basketball player? I've never seen it, not much anyway.

As some black dude said of his friend *****'s recreational basketball skill, "after age 35, we all play like white guys."

[Joe Beamish]

Did Joe Gans, Jack Johnson, and Joe Louis fight in the black style?

Louis not so much....

[Ray Corso]

"Where is the "black style" in any white basketball player"?

Bob Cousy (Celtics) & Pistol Pete Maravich (Jazz)

What exactly is a "black boxing style"?
Ray

[REMOVE SHARK 55]

Carl Frampton is slick, Fury's fleet footed at Heavyweight and a master of the pivot. Ever hear the term 'He Boxed circles ROUND him'. Liam Walsh who operates in Gervonta Davis weight division is proberbably the slickest behind Rigondeux and Loma.
You'd be hard pressed to say any of the above are stifff or upright.

As for Rocky, he had a crazy style sort of like when you upset a Bees nest and they're all over you . For a man of his height he had good punching power. How he was matched perfectly in those days is a mystery to me? and definitely is testerment to his skill set and professionalism. You could point to your Archie's being past it but in 49 fights surely he was meant to be KO'd at some point?.

IMO he is most definitely worthy of a top 10 spot.

[billeau2]

I guess every list on here proves blacks are more endowed for boxing than whites. There is only mathematical statistical proof, no other kind, folks. Men gained knowledge empirically in ancient times. If something happened enough, it was true. In this way men became experts in metal working without a scrap of chemical knowledge.

It is not a matter of how many are doing it. Please. Blacks are also far superior track stars, baketball players, wide receivers, running backs and defensive backs. The Klits never became a force until the big black (Lewis) was gone from the scene. Vlad was the only galoot on the scene for many years, dominating scrubs and smaller men. The first time he came up against another galoot with any measure of skill, the galoot sang him songs while beating him, everything but a lullaby.

We aren't supposed to talk about it, right? In a history section fully aware of the history of the heavyweight division, are we really expected to ignore the most blatant historical consistency that came about immediately after blacks were allowed in. Some truths are not wanted. This is one of them. They are not wanted so badly, in fact, that people will ban you, fight you, expell you, ostracise you and even shoot you for mentioning them.

And it is not as if you would be stating something that is said all the time around here. You know it isn't. You know that, tacitly, it is not allowed. Well, maybe once, as long as it quietly goes away because everyone is too politically correct to want this particular truth. It is so much easier to accuse you of racism and move on.

Since this is a boxing forum, I am not willing to discuss whether blacks are put together as well as northern Europeans for doing mathematics. What I have noticed is in boxing. And what I can tell you is blacks are better put together for boxing.

When as a little kid I noticed blacks had better muscles, my daddy said it was the way the ring lights shined on their color. No, daddy, they have more testosterone, which grows them more muscle and makes them more aggressive. No, daddy, it is not environmental (at least the modern one). If fewer blacks were in sports because there was full opportunity elsewhere, it is still the muscular ones who would be the boxers and running backs anyway, so it doesn't matter that there would be fewer of them in sports, because the ones most suited for it would still be, and blacks have more muscle boys per capita to choose from.

Physiological differences cannot be argued with, but are academically well known. Anyone who tells you they are a physiologist and that blacks do not in general have longer limbs for their heights, narrower waists, more muscle density, more testosterone and a larger psoas major (all just for mere starters) is a liar and probably drives a taxi.

Ill discuss it. Your wrong. I can tell you why. Its not a crazy assumption either, it makes perfect sense actually but...its not correct. Heres why:

The blacks you are talking about are blacks from Africa that were brought to America. But before we talk about those blacks lets talk about Africa. Africa is a large and genetically diverse continent. Race is not the primary indicator of genetics...there are many traits in Africa for a variety of reasons, probably because the continent has always experienced the interaction of different ad hoc and established tribes. Middle East genetic variants, semitic variants, Nubian, coastal, Asiatic, Hamitic, etc.

What this means is that in Africa will exist ALL manner of people, the tallest, the shortest...and indeed demography bares this out Lefty: You have tribes in Africa that exist on nothing but dairy...all the way up to lactose intolerant groups. You have pygmies, and very tall groups. Which means you have some of the most athletic people along with some of the least athletic people in Africa. this effect can be seen in China, even though China is not as genetically diverse: You have billions of Chinese, which is why you see very intelligent asians...you also have many very ****** asians, because...you have billions of Chinese. Proportionally there are not more smart asians, just a lot of all kinds of intelligence because of the sheer amount of chinese people.

Now, when the slave trade brought people from Africa the first thing that happened is on the voyage over, if you had a bad heart, or a predisposition to not handle duress, you would get sick and die...so by the time ****** arrive here you already have ****** captured for strength, a further weeding out because of the journey, and then on top of this ****** are bred to reproduce strong offspring. You are breeding for and controlling for a percentage of the strongest people from an already diverse environment, having already selected those superior from that environment to begin with.

Now do you understand why you are wrong about this? If you took any group sufficiently diverse, and weeded out weaknesses, then bred for similar qualities you would get a similar result...which is why, for example, there may be a lot of in bred apalachian types, but you also have Jack Dempsey...or why working class groups where physical labor and stress made for right conditions, created fighters from ***s, Italians, etc.

Race is not even a genetic indicator... There are people from scandinavia and Africa that share more genetic traits than two African groups in proximity to each other.

[billeau2]

No need for the truth. I am not making it a racial thing, it is a racial thing. I am not trying to start an argument, I am making an observation most people have made for themselves and are afraid to state or have been brainwashed out of. Why, the very idea! They have been told and re-educated to believe this should not be talked about. They are a disgrace if they mention such a thing.

More fast twitch fibers is advantageous in practically every individual sport and team position. Those particular muscle fibers might not confer any advantage at the World's Strongest Man Competition, but almost everywhere else in Sportl'nd they do.

Whether you or I or anyone else likes it, it comes down to the empirical and scientific observation that white men are operating at a physical disadvantage to black men in almost all sports.

The pertinent question is: Do whites hold any physical counter advantages? If so, what are they? The question is interesting by itself, and so are the answers. People are afraid of these questions and these answers. I will know when the biting and nail scratching starts.

Race is not the criteria for any of these advantages...The environment is what gives one group an advantage over another lefty... If one starts with a more diverse population to start with, or a significantly greater number of specimens, they will have an advantage, but it has nothing to do with skin color.

If I take 3 fruit flies who live a day, from a group, who all have the gene to jump higher, and then create another group with 30 fruit flies that have 10% of the population with this same gene to jump higher, and the fruit flies from each group have a different color...the 3 fruit flies will produce offspring that have the best chance to jump higher, over time...However if in this group of 30 flies, there is an activity that allows the 10% to survive and reproduce exclusively (maybe the flies will drown if they cannot jump high enough)then both groups will have the same liklihood of reproducing the desired trait.

Slavery and athletic properties was such that African Blacks were bred for traits of strength, so these traits came to the forefront in that group... BUT the mean streets and other such weeding out also created a crucible where the same traits came out in other groups as well. Nothing to do with race. Initially the son of a slave has the advantage, then 5 Italians are punched in the face by the son of a slave...eventually only those Italians with fast twitch muscles sufficient to evade the punch avoid the punch and get the girl..they reproduce and their spawn has the same advantages as the son of the slave.

[Joe Beamish]

"Where is the "black style" in any white basketball player"?

Bob Cousy (Celtics) & Pistol Pete Maravich (Jazz)

What exactly is a "black boxing style"?
Ray

I wouldn't call it a boxing style. I'd call it a certain type and degree of movement and athletic ability. Show me a non-black sprinter with "black speed." Show me a big white guy that can move with remotely the speed and gracefulness of Ali or Tyson.

Cousy and Maravich were two of the best white basketball players of all time, but probably wouldn't make the NBA today, where black players more than dominate. They lack the sheer athletic ability to overcome their relative size disadvantages. And Maravich would have to play defense, which again, he wouldn't have been able to keep up. They also lack soul.

[ShoulderRoll]

Louis not so much....

So that must mean that there are different "black styles" then? Not just one?

[Joe Beamish]

So that must mean that there are different "black styles" then? Not just one?

There's a black athleticism that is unapproachable by other races. But not all black athletes typify those traits.

But feel free to name any non-black sprinters, basketball players, cornerbacks and boxers who combine the size, power and flashy quickness that the best black athletes do. For whatever reason, or set of reasons.