Prime Liston vs Prime Tyson

[abdelfadeel]

Mike Tyson under Cus D'Amato and Kevin Rooney was on his way to being an all time great heavyweight. Tyson became a different fighter when he parted ways with them. He became a head hunter and lacked discipline and patience. Although Tyson never had great stamina he was able to go the distance of 10 and 12 rounds a few times and win. The stamina issues were magnified when he got out of jail and was basically a shell of his former self. A prime Tyson had good boxing skills to go along with great power and speed. Tyson in his prime could last 12 rounds and possibly 15 if needed.

Sonny Liston was everything Tyson wishes he was. Liston was tough and a true bad man without having to say so. Sonny could box and go the distance without a problem. Liston had a great chin and probably the best jab in heavyweight history. His power was equaled by very few and maybe only Foreman could match him there.

Sonny Liston would not have that hard a time with Tyson. Liston would used the jab to pick off the smaller Tyson and set him up for big rights and uppercuts. Tyson's style was exactly like Floyd Patterson's(Cus trained him also) but with much more power. Sonny can take anything Tyson dishes out,and that would discourage Mike big time. A great heavyweight contender named Cleveland Williams unloaded on Sonny in the first round of their first fight, bloodying his nose and possibly breaking it. Williams had big time power like Tyson and probably the same amount of speed. Williams was also bigger than Tyson. Liston simply shook off the blows and figured Williams out, eventually knocking him out in 3 rounds. Sonny took Williams down in the 2 round in their rematch. Liston would pound the smaller Tyson around the ring and do what nobody ever did with a prime Tyson... Dominate him. Sonny takes this in no more than 5 but probably ends this much earlier by 3rd round knockout.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

First we must identify when each of their respective primes was.

[juggernaut666]

Tyson would have never lost to a 175 pounder...liston did..

Why was liston at 210 in his actual prime,slow footed ,telegraphing puncher everything Tyson wanted to be is a better question? I bring up 210 because you guys act like liston was some 7 foot giant who beat normal sized guys which he didn't ,his opponets had terrible records who averaged averaged around 190 pounds. Tyson would not only beat Liston, he would do it easily as any credible boxing analyst would see,though we all know theres not many out there who favors Tyson because theres not many realistic or credible ppl who actually study the fighters themselves.

[Kiwi Nick]

Styles make fights
Ali would have had problems with Tyson like he did with Frazier.
Liston would have loved Tyson. He comes straight forward and makes an easy target.

[abdelfadeel]

Tyson would have never lost to a 175 pounder...liston did..

Your point being? Liston would've never lost to Kevin Mcbride. Tyson did.

Why was liston at 210 in his actual prime,slow footed ,telegraphing puncher everything Tyson wanted to be is a better question?

Angelo Dundee once said Liston was just as fast if not faster than Tyson

I bring up 210 because you guys act like liston was some 7 foot giant who beat normal sized guys which he didn't ,his opponets had terrible records who averaged averaged around 190 pounds.

Liston fought approximately nine fighters under 190 pounds.

Tyson would not only beat Liston, he would do it easily as any credible boxing analyst would see,though we all know theres not many out there who favors Tyson because theres not many realistic or credible ppl who actually study the fighters themselves.

Just like he beat Douglas easily?

[abdelfadeel]

Tyson would not only beat Liston, he would do it easily as any credible boxing analyst would see,

Jim Carney- Author and Boxing Expert: Tyson vs. Liston
Steel and concrete here. Perhaps the two heavyweight champions you’d least like to meet in a dark alley (although Dempsey, Foreman, Jeffries and John L. would also be especially fearsome in that venue). In addition, both Sonny and Iron Mike may have the same major flaws.

Both are extremely strong and able to convert their strength into punching power. Tyson also has quicker than average hands, which added to his power and defensive ability. He is generally considered above Sonny in this area – Liston’s hand speed being rated average by some, above average by others. Tyson also had the edge in foot speed, though this might mean less than in other match-ups as both would basically be coming forward. A huge advantage for Liston would be his 13-inch edge in reach, whose value is enhanced by what many consider the most powerful left jab of all time. Liston would appear to have the edge in durability, though Tyson rates well here too. Many may feel that the fact that Mike hit the floor more times than Sonny relates to a weaker heart rather than a weaker chin.

Both men are suspect in the matter of heart and there are specific parallels between them in this area. Each man folded when they met a man around their own talent level at their peak – Liston with Ali and Tyson with Holyfield. They also both were total embarrassments in their rematches with their exposers – Liston futiley chasing Ali then flopping down in round one and Tyson being outmuscled and outfought and then biting Holyfield twice before being disqualified in round three.

In other areas of this match-up, the pair is close in weight, Liston’s height advantage is not significant to Tyson (virtually all of his major opponents were at least a little taller than Sonny). Though Liston and Tyson have fought men with the same main assets (strength and punch) that they face in each other, I don’t know that Mike ever fought an oncoming fighter who combined brawn and skill with a mercilessly glacial approach like Liston. Likewise, Sonny never met a man with Mike’s hard-hitting, ferocious (and in the beginning) bobbing and weaving attack.

Tyson was probably the better schooled under Cus D’Amato and Kevin Rooney, but Liston’s trainer Willie Reddish was solid and Sonny had the benefit of training with and serving as a sparring partner for master boxer and former great heavyweight champion Ezzard Charles. Both men rate well in the skill department. However, after the deaths of D’Amato and Jimmy Jacobs and the firing of Rooney, Tyson grew notably sloppier in his ring techniques. Testimony to Liston’s skill is given by Muhammad Ali who notes that Sonny was smart in the ring. Overall, there wasn’t much difference in the quality of foes each man met and beat.

In this dream matchup, the pair begins by competing with each other to intimidate. Tyson talks of dire consequences for Sonny and gets the famous Liston stare in return. The battle is a nip and tuck smashing war from the beginning. Tyson goes low to the body and switches to uppercuts while Sonny stabs with his awesome jab, sometimes adding left hooks and occasional right crosses to the mix. The battle swings back and forth. Despite the fact that Mike’s short arms and more or less equal strength should give him an advantage in the infighting. Sonny dominates here. For some reason, all Mike usually does in close is hold on, sometimes even grabbing the other party and holding even when he is winning an exchange.

During his career, Tyson folded in a number of different circumstances, including incidences when he was being overpowered. Liston, on the other hand, usually only had trouble (and only gave in against Ali) when he was fighting men with styles confusing to him. In brawn to brawn confrontations he was always a man’s man. He flattened powerful Cleveland Williams after Williams had broken his nose at the start of one of their bouts. Zora Folley hit him with 30 straight shots against the ropes – and then Sonny steamrolled him. Sonny also went through one of his three fights with Marty Marshall with a broken jaw. I don’t think Mike would fare that well in these situations. That’s the difference between the two and that’s why I pick Liston by a late round KO.

By Moontan(Judge) Heavyweightaction.com -Expert

Very difficult matchup between two of the strongest heavyweight champions in history. Both dominated their division for a brief period as thoroughly as anybody has seen. Tyson from 1986 to 1990 and Liston from 1959 to 1964. Both loss their title in two of the biggest upsets in heavyweight history. Ali was a 7 to 1 underdog to Liston while Buster Douglas had even greater odds against Tyson.

Both were tremendous fighters that intimidated their opponents and relied on it to big advantages in many of their fights. Neither fighter held must because the were constantly coming forward throwing punches. Their opponents were always holding and grabing trying to stay upright.

The Tyson that I am comparing in this fight was the person who dominated boxing from 1986 to 1990 before he had all types of struggles with the law and did not work or train as hard. The Liston that I am ranking was the top fighter in the world from 1959 to 1963. Tyson was never as dominating in the 1990s as he was earlier and Liston of course declined rapidly after his fights with Patterson. Both made a good living on their reputations during the later part of their careers.
I watched more fight footage comparing these two fighters than any of the previous matches we have picked. Watching Tyson in his match against Razor Ruddock and Liston in his fight against Cleveland Williams. Ruddock had very similar size to Liston and Cleveland Williams was the most powerful fighter that Liston faced during his career. Most fighters who survived Liston boxed and moved and tied him up inside(Eddie Machen). Williams did not, he was the aggressor while the fight lasted and Liston took everything he threw at him and knocked Williams out in third round. Tyson took numerous shots from Ruddock in both their fights and Razor lasted the full 12 rounds in their second fight. Tony Tucker also gave Tyson a lot of trouble with his reach but he held and grabbed which Liston would not be doing. I see Liston’s jab and reach being a big factor in the contest as well as his outstanding boxing ability and his offensive skills. The only fighter Tyson ever faced with the offensive skills and power of Liston was Lennox Lewis and Tyson did not fair well against the Brit. Liston was much stronger than Lewis. I don’t see the fight lasting long because both fighters were so aggressive. Give me Liston in a 6th round knockout.

The Sweet Science: by Frank Lotierzo Jan.,2005
Who Would've Won

A Liston-Tyson confrontation comes down to two things: who would've backed up, and who would've been the least intimidated by the other. I know this may not be popular, but I just can't envision Liston being intimidated by Tyson. Liston had no fear of Clay/Ali, and on top of that he kept going after a hard puncher like Cleveland Williams, who was in his prime at the time, even after having been nailed by bombs from Williams. Liston also chased down Marty Marshall despite having a broken jaw for the majority of the fight. This is in contrast to Tyson, who would go into long defensive shells and stop throwing punches when faced with an opponent who attacked him with big shots. I believe in a battle of wills, Sonny convinces Mike that he's not going to win easier than Mike convinces Sonny that it's not his night.

The fact that I think Liston wins the psychological warfare translates into the physical fight and how it plays out. I think Tyson may try to jump on Liston like he did Holyfield and Lewis at the onset. The first round or two would be incredible. Tyson would probably come on very quickly, almost recklessly, and his movement and fast hands might provide him with a measure of success. But then he'd face his first problem, Liston wouldn't fall. And, of course, Liston always fired back.

All it would take would be a few of those telephone pole jabs to take all the starch out of Tyson mentally. I also doubt he'd have the nerve to pull any ear-biting, arm-breaking shlt with Liston. Once Tyson gets second thoughts about coming in with impunity and starts to think his way through the fight, he's in trouble. The moment Liston senses that Tyson has some reservations, he'd pick up the pace and apply even more mental and physical pressure.

The way I see it, Liston stops Tyson. He had the jab reach and power, along with the style, to neutralize Tyson and his greater hand speed. On top of that, Sonny takes away Tyson's biggest weapon, the intimidation factor. It says here that Tyson is the one who harbors self-doubt, and it is Tyson who would be unsure of himself during the stare down as he faced Liston in the center of the ring before the bell for round one.


Cox’s Corner
If anyone could intimidate Mike Tyson it would be Sonny Liston. Liston’s awesome 84-inch reach, destructive jab, and deadly hooks and uppercuts would spell trouble for Iron Mike. As Tyson moved in he would be greeted by Sonny’s thunderous long jab. Liston was at least Tyson’s equal in terms of sheer power. Sonny was also under-rated as a boxing technician. Liston would hammer Tyson at long range, control the tempo of the fight, and batter Tyson much worse than Douglas ever could. By the eighth round Tyson would have trouble seeing Sonny’s punches and a murderous barrage would send him down for the count.

Experts Predicted Outcome: Liston’s favor 4-0
Jim Carney Liston KO late
Moontan Liston 6-KO
Frank Lotierzo Liston
Cox’s Corner Liston

[jiopsi]

Nobody has a chance in hell with prime Tyson. He was the absolute pinnacle of boxing.

[Kiwi Nick]

Tyson was a one trick pony who never fought and beat anyone I respect, with the possible exception of the decision over Bonecrusher smith and an ancient Larry Hol,es who made Tyson look like a shaved gorilla for 4 glorious rounds.

[juggernaut666]

:

Your point being? Liston would've never lost to Kevin Mcbride. Tyson did.


Angelo Dundee once said Liston was just as fast if not faster than Tyson

Liston fought approximately nine fighters under 190 pounds.

Just like he beat Douglas easily?

Liston would be lucky to make it out of round 2 with a prime Tyson. You will not beat Tyson unless you have speed or size..most cases you needed both ,but Tyson never lost when he was prepared in the 80's so its a what if or a where you rate his skill level to that which came after the ronney days...Im sure you will have him as the same fighter based on yourtr lack of understanding how timing effects a fighter .Even Douglas had a fast whipping jab and danced around it...liston was not that type of fighter ,he was a straight forward lunger,and that would be suicide against a fast Tyson.You already lost this argument when you brought up Mcbride so i'll leave you to your nonsense agenda which will add up only to someone foolish enough to use the same methods you are here. Im sure theres a few . Just like the ones who will say size is a non factor when in Listons own prime the biggest guy he fought was 211 outside of Williams which why I brought up the 190 pound opponents.The common thing with liston is many guys lost before he fought them prior,so please show me who exactly was better Liston defeated than 70% of the guys Tyson did?

Listons old sparring partner once stated Ruddock hit much harder than Liston...the difference between a Ruddock and Liston was 3 inches and 30 pounds...add in speed and footwork......who won those Ruddock/Tyson fights? to try and tell me the slow/suspect chin predictable liston is going to be favored over arguably the sharpest most accurate hardest puncher ever aas well to land a clean shot on at one point, liston is favored to win this is?.....

P.S You don't learn to compare fighteers off of out dated boxing historians,you learn from actual fight footage and then use the application of the eye,and then you use common sense and disregard what is myth....just a thought. ! just like LITTLE Tyson outweighing the HUGE Liston by 5/10 pounds in each respective prime.

Liston stronger than Lewis?

"Angelo Dundee once said Liston was just as fast if not faster than Tyson"

[abdelfadeel]

[QUOTE=juggernaut666;16567832]:

Liston would be lucky to make it out of round 2 with a prime Tyson. You will not beat Tyson unless you have speed or size..most cases you needed both

Lmao. a shot Pinklon Thomas made it to the 6th round against a prime Tyson.

but Tyson never lost when he was prepared in the 80's so its a what if or a where you rate his skill level to that which came after the ronney days

Nope Tyson was prime from 1986 to 1993. Sorry if you can't handle it.
.

..Even Douglas had a fast whipping jab and danced around it...liston was not that type of fighter ,he was a straight forward lunger,and that would be suicide against a fast Tyson.

Liston could box as well. He was a better inside fighter and a better outside fighter. Liston could box him or go toe to toe with him. Either way, the rapist is ****ed (no pun intended).

You already lost this argument when you brought up Mcbride so i'll leave you to your nonsense agenda which will add up only to someone foolish enough to use the same methods you are here.

What the hell are you talking about?

Im sure theres a few . Just like the ones who will say size is a non factor when in Listons own prime the biggest guy he fought was 211 outside of Williams which why I brought up the 190 pound opponents.

George Johnson: 212 pounds.
Chuck Wepner 228 pounds.
Henry Clark:215
Elmer Rush: 214
Keep on trolling.

The common thing with liston is many guys lost before he fought them prior,

Ok? Many guys (if not all guys) Tyson fought were already defeated themselves as well.

so please show me who exactly was better Liston defeated than 70% of the guys Tyson did?

TBH, Their are some men who Liston spat and chewed up, I'd favor over Tyson
[QUOTE]Listons old sparring partner once stated Ruddock hit much harder than Liston.[QUOTE]
Well then he's talking out of his arse as he's never been hit by Ruddock. On the contrary, Shavers who's sparred with Tyson, Liston, Ruddock, Bruno, among others said Liston was the hardest puncher.

.the difference between a Ruddock and Liston was 3 inches and 30 pounds..

Ruddock started out as a cruserweight

.add in speed and footwork......who won those Ruddock/Tyson fights? to try and tell me the slow/suspect chin predictable liston is going to be favored over arguably the sharpest most accurate hardest puncher ever aas well to land a clean shot on at one point, liston is favored to win this is?.....

Are you Desire Washington by any chance?

P.S You don't learn to compare fighteers off of out dated boxing historians,you learn from actual fight footage and then use the application of the eye,and then you use common sense and disregard what is myth....just a thought. ! just like LITTLE Tyson outweighing the HUGE Liston by 5/10 pounds in each respective prime.

Outdated my ass, it was literally a couple of years ago

Liston stronger than Lewis?

MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH stronger than Lewis.