Strongest fighter ever lived

[SABBATH]

Yeah I'd love to hear Ali's reasons. Liston at #1? That seems very strange considering how easily he handled Liston.

"My toughest fight was probably the night I took the title from Sonny Liston in Miami beach. I was young and a great admirer of Liston's talent. He could do just about everything but dance. He had a tremendous jab, could hit with both hands and was as strong as any heavyweight I've ever seen.

Sonny came out at the opening bell looking to take me apart. I moved and stuck and by the second round I knew I was gaining control. But he was always dangerous. About the 4th round my eyes started burning. When I came back to my corner, I couldn't see at all. I figured Liston had something on his gloves and I asked Dundee to cut my gloves off. Instead he washed out my eyes, checked Liston's corner, talked to the referee, did everything to stall for time. The bell rang and Angelo told me to keep moving till my eyes cleared.

Half blind I got on my bicycle. Luckily I had enough instinct speed and fear to keep from getting tagged till my eyes cleared. Sonny used himself up chasing me and was tired by the end of the 6th. I was very relieved though when Sonny stayed on his stool when the bell rang to start the 7th."

-Muhammad Ali

[RockyMarcianofan00]

Sonny Liston had a decent punch and did have physical strength but i don't put him in the top 5 for either of those catogories

[SABBATH]

Post the rest, please!

That's alot of typing! Pick the opponent and I'll give you Ali's comments.

[SABBATH]

LRR, your infatuation with Ali defeating Foreman on these threads is getting a little stale although it does help break up the monotony of your continuous rants about Ali losing to Leon Spinks.

Ali hardly looked pitiful in defeating Foreman. If anyone looked pitiful it was Foreman who stumbled off balance, reached, pawed and pushed at Ali all the while swinging for the fences with amateurish roundhouse punches that missed Ali's head by a country mile.

Foreman pawed at punches and was a sucker for a feint and Ali exploited this. Many times Ali feinted and as Foreman pawed at Ali's feint and leaned forward off balance Ali was able to land clean straight punches. Ali's closing flurries in rounds 3 and 5 are good examples of Ali exploiting this Foreman flaw.

What Ali's corner was yelling at Ali was "Don't gamble." Dundee can clearly be heard yelling this to Ali in the 5th round as Ali was against the ropes above him.

Ali didn't 'collapse' in the ring after the fight. Ali hated to be mobbed after a fight and wanted breathing room. Ali can clearly be seen telling the well wishers to get away and yelling at brother Rachman to put him down when he tries to pick him up in celebration. Ali then escapes the mob by sitting down and can clearly be seen on the video sitting down on the floor, knees bent forearms resting on his knees before being up again a few moments later. After Norton II when Bundini tried to move in on Ali and crowd him, Ali lashed out and punched Bundini in the head.

How tough for you is it to accept that Ali defeated Foreman? You have no excuses. Everything favoured Foreman. Younger, stronger, heavier hitter and full of confidence. Ali was past his prime at 32 years old conceeded 8 years had been defeated twice in the previous 3 years, once the previous year and had more wear and tear on his body having been in tougher fights. Ali hadn't scored a KO in 2 years when he stopped light-heavyweight Bob Foster. On top of all these advantages Foreman gets a 16 ft square ring (verified by Referee Zack Clayton interviewed on NBC TV Greatest Fights Ever Rumble In The Jungle) and Ali on the ropes and Foreman spends the fight stumbling around like an un-coordinated drunk unable to put together any succession of head shots with his man Ali imobile against the ropes, directly in front of him with his feet planted.

As for Ali being out on his feet a couple of times I'd like to know at which point. Foreman landed very few signifigant head shots at all in the fight. About the best one I recall was a pretty decent right upper-cut in Round 1. Ali's face was unscathed save for a slight discolourization to his right eye likely due to when Ali gets thumbed early in the 7th round.

Ali never staggered nor were his knees buckled and Ali was continually talking alot to Foreman as well. He hardly looked like a man out on his feet. Maybe you can enlighten the readership as to what point in the fight was Ali out on his feet?

Do your homework and actually watch the fight then do your research. Maybe then you can provide evidence to back up your claims.

Until then give it a rest.

Come on LondonRingRules. Don't be shy. Step up to the plate. I won't wait all day.

[K-DOGG]

I'm an Ali student, so I can guess his reasons for most of the list; but for the sake of arguement, how about Spinks, Mildenberger, & Cooper.

I do suspect his reasons for those three are along the lines of: age, soutpaw stance, and pressure of Cooper's hook and the fact that the audience was excited and he'd boased about returning to the states for 30 days if he didn't stop him in 5....but please, those three or one of the three would be great, though I don't want to tax you too much.

[SABBATH]

I'm an Ali student, so I can guess his reasons for most of the list; but for the sake of arguement, how about Spinks, Mildenberger, & Cooper.

I do suspect his reasons for those three are along the lines of: age, soutpaw stance, and pressure of Cooper's hook and the fact that the audience was excited and he'd boased about returning to the states for 30 days if he didn't stop him in 5....but please, those three or one of the three would be great, though I don't want to tax you too much.

Oh alright, KK.

1) LEON SPINKS: I was a little older and alot slower than I was when I fought Norton and Frazier but Spinks had as much guts as either of them though he couldn't hit too hard.

Our first fight was so tough for me. I didn't take him as seriously as I should have and Leon came at me all the way, never stopped throwing punches. Even when I rope-a-doped him Spinks kept punching and wouldn't tire. I don't know what happened to Leon after our fights. I really thought he'd be harder to beat than he turned out to be.

2) KARL MILDENBERGER: He was a southpaw and I had a lot of trouble getting untracked against his style. He could box pretty well and he whacked me with some hard punches. I didn't get him until the 12th in what everybody figured would only go 2 or 3 rounds.

3) HENRY COOPER: Cooper was one of the toughest guys I met no question. He dropped me right on the seat of my pants in our first fight. His trouble was his skin. Just touch him and the blood started flowing. I fought him twice and stopped him on cuts both times. That was the only thing when he fought-you knew you'd stop him on cuts sooner or later. The trick was staying away from his left hook in the meantime.

More requests?

[K-DOGG]

Oh alright, KK.

1) LEON SPINKS: I was a little older and alot slower than I was when I fought Norton and Frazier but Spinks had as much guts as either of them though he couldn't hit too hard.

Our first fight was so tough for me. I didn't take him as seriously as I should have and Leon came at me all the way, never stopped throwing punches. Even when I rope-a-doped him Spinks kept punching and wouldn't tire. I don't know what happened to Leon after our fights. I really thought he'd be harder to beat than he turned out to be.

2) KARL MILDENBERGER: He was a southpaw and I had a lot of trouble getting untracked against his style. He could box pretty well and he whacked me with some hard punches. I didn't get him until the 12th in what everybody figured would only go 2 or 3 rounds.

3) HENRY COOPER: Cooper was one of the toughest guys I met no question. He dropped me right on the seat of my pants in our first fight. His trouble was his skin. Just touch him and the blood started flowing. I fought him twice and stopped him on cuts both times. That was the only thing when he fought-you knew you'd stop him on cuts sooner or later. The trick was staying away from his left hook in the meantime.

More requests?

Muchas Gracias, amigo.

Fascinating stuff. Sorry for the inconvenience of typing all that stuff.

[SABBATH]

Muchas Gracias, amigo.

Fascinating stuff. Sorry for the inconvenience of typing all that stuff.

No problem, it's good practice. Most of Ali's reasoning for opponents being difficult is predictable if you have seen the fights.

Many of these fighters he listed brought something unique to the table such as Mildenberger being a southpaw, Spinks being tireless etc..

Not to be disrespectful to Foreman but Ali often sparred with Roy Williams and Blue Lewis two big tall heavyhanded ****ers whose styles and physical attributes were along the lines of Foreman. Ali was a terrible gym fighter and spent alot of time on the ropes practicing blocking and muffling big shots as well as working on his strength by wrestling his sparring partners and working on his strength.

The Foreman fight offered Ali nothing he hadn't seen many times already in the gym except for Foreman's power which was unmatched by anyone Ali was previously in the ring against except perhaps Liston..

[K-DOGG]

No problem, it's good practice. Most of Ali's reasoning for opponents being difficult is predictable if you have seen the fights.

Many of these fighters he listed brought something unique to the table such as Mildenberger being a southpaw, Spinks being tireless etc..

Not to be disrespectful to Foreman but Ali often sparred with Roy Williams and Blue Lewis two big tall heavyhanded ****ers whose styles and physical attributes were along the lines of Foreman. Ali was a terrible gym fighter and spent alot of time on the ropes practicing blocking and muffling big shots as well as working on his strength by wrestling his sparring partners and working on his strength.

The Foreman fight offered Ali nothing he hadn't seen many times already in the gym except for Foreman's power which was unmatched by anyone Ali was previously in the ring against except perhaps Liston..

Agreed on Ali being a poor gym fighter. Somebody else, I believe Butterfly, posted on Ali's strength...and I have to agree whole heartedly. Ali won the Foreman fight as much by wrestling with George, holding his head down, etc and enhancing George's natural tiring from missing those huge shots as he did by psychologically getting inside George's head. Angelo Dundee on countless occassions has stated that No One knew the real strength of Muhammad Ali. He was something else. One does not have to be a big puncher to be strong...and Ali was a very strong heavyweight.

[Oasis_Lad]

great posts sabbath