Is the "Old vs New" debate unique to boxing?

[Suckmedry]

There IS a small contingent of nut baggery in all other sports as well of course pioneered by the old timers of the sport in question carping on about "back in our day" etc etc,,,

However in every other instance besides boxing it is completely un tolerated in serious discussion and crushed and ridiculed as it rightfully should be,

In boxing, where nut baggery is widespread and rife like a cancerous disease it displays to the outside world how boxing fans are the dumbest of all the fan bases of any sport.

Sports fans of other codes view this as stemming from the fact that we are all brain damaged from being punched in the head too hard and often and that definitely plays a part but the REAL reason behind it is more subtle...

The MAIN reason nut baggery is more rife in boxing than any other sport is because boxing in development terms in basically a very NEW sport. All these other sports have been subjected to constant development and evolution since their inception but because of the nature of boxing- it's brutality, it was ALWAYS viewed by the general populace as a "mugs" game. The nut bag historians will tell of tales how revered the champs were and how the people loved boxing so much but that is of course through the eyes of a boxing FAN, not a general person.

As a result, boxing as a technical SPORT in development stalled with only minor alterations since the advent of gloves right through until the 1980's.

The 1980's marks the birth place of modern boxing. It was here that we can see that boxers looked qualitatively different than any other era. Skills and defence were developed, suddenly there were athletic and agile boxers. Fighters hit upon the idea that they could move their head, feet and body and come to avoid punches instead of just taking them on their head, and training modes began to reflect that which is actually required of a boxer and not that which hampers performance.

In short the 1980's was the first time sports science was actually applied to boxing and when boxing started to actually become a "professional" sport.

The implications here is that boxing FANS have to play "catch up" now where as fans of other sports have had plenty of time to smoothly adjust.

That is why nut baggery is more prevalent in boxing than any other sport.

There are those of course who KNOW the truth but still choose to promote the MYTH as it serves their agenda.

For this reason boxing continues to be swept up in archaic ideas that do enormous damage to boxing as a sport and even threaten its very existence.

Only with the eradication of nut baggery as in all other sports can we truly move forward.

Thankfully the sport NOW has a very sizable group of intelligent and awakened fans that fight to push back the darkness one candle at a time.

You literally post this rant every day..Its been 18 months on these boards that you have posted more or less the same thing day in day out... Ironically if anyone here is a real life "nut bag" it is highly likely to be you

[ShoulderRoll]

You will find that baseball forums will argue endlessly over the merits of the old timers versus the modern greats. Very similar in many respects to the debate in boxing.

[billeau2]

You will find that baseball forums will argue endlessly over the merits of the old timers versus the modern greats. Very similar in many respects to the debate in boxing.

Terry Bradshaw is on record as raising eyebrows because he believes that because of the amount of free agents and the time teams spend together, that a team like the Pittsburgh Steelers of the 70's would dominate today. most people disagree.

[ShoulderRoll]

Terry Bradshaw is on record as raising eyebrows because he believes that because of the amount of free agents and the time teams spend together, that a team like the Pittsburgh Steelers of the 70's would dominate today. most people disagree.

I believe it. Those guys had Chuck Noll's system mastered and ran it like a well oiled machine.

[billeau2]

There IS a small contingent of nut baggery in all other sports as well of course pioneered by the old timers of the sport in question carping on about "back in our day" etc etc,,,

However in every other instance besides boxing it is completely un tolerated in serious discussion and crushed and ridiculed as it rightfully should be,

In boxing, where nut baggery is widespread and rife like a cancerous disease it displays to the outside world how boxing fans are the dumbest of all the fan bases of any sport.

Sports fans of other codes view this as stemming from the fact that we are all brain damaged from being punched in the head too hard and often and that definitely plays a part but the REAL reason behind it is more subtle...

The MAIN reason nut baggery is more rife in boxing than any other sport is because boxing in development terms in basically a very NEW sport. All these other sports have been subjected to constant development and evolution since their inception but because of the nature of boxing- it's brutality, it was ALWAYS viewed by the general populace as a "mugs" game. The nut bag historians will tell of tales how revered the champs were and how the people loved boxing so much but that is of course through the eyes of a boxing FAN, not a general person.

As a result, boxing as a technical SPORT in development stalled with only minor alterations since the advent of gloves right through until the 1980's.

The 1980's marks the birth place of modern boxing. It was here that we can see that boxers looked qualitatively different than any other era. Skills and defence were developed, suddenly there were athletic and agile boxers. Fighters hit upon the idea that they could move their head, feet and body and come to avoid punches instead of just taking them on their head, and training modes began to reflect that which is actually required of a boxer and not that which hampers performance.

In short the 1980's was the first time sports science was actually applied to boxing and when boxing started to actually become a "professional" sport.

The implications here is that boxing FANS have to play "catch up" now where as fans of other sports have had plenty of time to smoothly adjust.

That is why nut baggery is more prevalent in boxing than any other sport.

There are those of course who KNOW the truth but still choose to promote the MYTH as it serves their agenda.

For this reason boxing continues to be swept up in archaic ideas that do enormous damage to boxing as a sport and even threaten its very existence.

Only with the eradication of nut baggery as in all other sports can we truly move forward.

Thankfully the sport NOW has a very sizable group of intelligent and awakened fans that fight to push back the darkness one candle at a time.

And do show us an example of this "watershed" change idiot. I mean for example...one could show the differnce between Dempsey and Jack Johnson, historically placing Corbett as a vector for changes carried through. One can show a seminal fight where this is realized as Tunney fought Dempsey.

One can show how Ali revolutionized heavyweight boxing, and was unanticipated...this can all be documented. One can use fighters and trainers and seminal fights to show developments...so show us how anything in the 80's accomplished this change idiot. you can't.

The irony is that your actually on to something and you don't even know what it is. You see the truth in everything you say about boxing kind of applies to American Football. Football coaches in Florida wanted their players to be able to do football and still exerscize to the point of exhausting the body because...thats how one gets stronger right?

Enter Jones, who creates special circuit training that will exhaust all the major muslces in the body, when the body is in peak condition, in under 15 minutes. nautilus training is implemented. the idea is revolutionary. basically the intensity of the exerscize becomes greater, the reps less and less, until only 8 reps are required.

not coincidentally around this time we see a large leap in the size and fitness of football players. Also around this time we see very new and specialized strategies developed at each player position. So where as we had vince lombardi the genius creating a sweep where all the players pull to one side...not really hard to learn...now we have Bill Walsh creating the West Coast offense where each reciever runs a specialized route, the quarterback must know what each reciever is running, and have at leat one option is the recievers are covered.

This is what happened during the 80's Leroy! this has nothing to do with boxing!

[Elroy1]

I don't wanna really reply to Bill's entire post because largely it consits of 3 elements..

1. Obvious facts I would not dispute anyway which are intended to serve as a method to try and captivate some nut bag audience long enough to deliver an agenda.

2. An unrelated smoke screen surrounding American Football which only serves to detract further.

3. Nut baggery when boxing is discussed.

There was a seminal point however in the 80's and I largely urge everybody to watch the HBO version on YouTube of Spinks vs Holmes 1.

In the prologue it is described how for over a century nothing has really changed but all that was set to with the advent of new regimes which were first implemented during this fight.

Worth a look. Even nut bags might enjoy it.

[Elroy1]

You will find that baseball forums will argue endlessly over the merits of the old timers versus the modern greats. Very similar in many respects to the debate in boxing.

Assuming this is a true statement (I'm assuming it probably isn't given the nature of the poster)- then I would first conclude that nut baggery may even be an AMERICAN phenomenon mainly as I know for certain no sport in Australia tolerates or subscribes to such ridiculous or archaic notions.

[joeandthebums]

There was a seminal point however in the 80's and I largely urge everybody to watch the HBO version on YouTube of Spinks vs Holmes 1.

"When it comes to the sport of boxing, not much has really changed through the years.

The road, hand and speed work of yesterday are basically the same road, hand speed work of today.

Michael Spinks was no exception, until 1982 that is, when his camp co-ordinator Don Humbell introduced him to Mackie Shilstone, an expert in physiological and sports nutrition. Shilstone modernised Michael's training and brought the sport into the 20th century.

'I spent some time doing an analysis of the sport of boxing, the characteristics, I became a student watching it, putting physiological to the actual sport itself. What I would call a specifically of training. Relating the training procedure to actual what goes on in the ring, that's how I put the two together.'

In the past it was Mackie's responsibility to reduce Micheal's body mass to bring him in at the light-heavyweight limit, in a February fight with David Sears MacDonald as Michael's weight was brought from 190 to 170, his weight later climbed to 195 and was then reduced to 175 for Jim MacDonald, but to fight as a heavyweight required the development of a different type of program.

'In this particular event we have to build lean body mass while keeping fat reduced, excess fat is not something that you want.'

Through training, nutrition, motivation and rest a program was designed to complement Michael's boxing workout, on July 29th Spinks and his camp joined Mackie to begin their 8-week building program process.

A program which would be as grueeling for the trainer as for the pupil.

'I must be able to show Michael that this works. I eat what you eat, I do what you do, I accomplish what you do.

Everything we're doing is related around the actual action, for instance, so when we do the deadlift that's so if Larry Holmes crashes down on Michael he's got low back and leg strength to come right back up again and push him away.'

'I feel a lot different. Exactly what we trying to acheive. It's happening. I feel strong, I feel well equipped for what I have to do as weeks pass and day's go by. I'm getting better. Every day I'm getting bigger. That's amazing.'

While weight training is never been an accepted norm in the sport of boxing neither is the recording of every movement in what may be the most detailed training analysis in the history of the sport.

In the past part of Michael's conditioning involved long distance runs to supposedly build stamina and leg strength, but that's also changed. Modeled after a track conditioning program, this very intense form of running is geared to simulate boxing's three minute rounds and one minute of rest.

'This sort of short running is much more intense than running than I'm used to doing. It's quicker, faster, I mean I see the results. I get in the gym, my legs feel great, my legs feel extremely good.'

In addition to exercise but equally important is proper nutrition, to assure that Michael build muscle and not fat, what was an eighteen hundred calorie diet is now forty-five hundred diet consisting of 65% carbohydrates, 20% protein and 15% fat.

'That's all our program is, common sense. Making sure we eat as a heavyweight and think as a heavyweight. And don't put any more in our system then we can use. And we won't get fat.'

'I think this is perfect.'

But in the end it is not the number of calories, four-forty or repetitions of boxing experts look for but it's the number of pounds that always seem to count the most.

'Michael will assume a championship weight, what is that weight, I'm going to let Michael Spinks tell me that.'

In the last fifteen weeks following the McDonald fight Michael's weight has climbed to approximately two hundred pounds, yet his body fat percentage is only seven-point-two percent.

In the three months it's taken Michael Spinks to transform himself into a heavyweight the sport of boxing has witnessed a training approach never seen before.

[Anthony342]

I believe it. Those guys had Chuck Noll's system mastered and ran it like a well oiled machine.

Yep. But what about Vince Lombardi's Packers or the 49ers of the 1980s to mid '90s that won their 5 championships. Wouldn't they also be competitive today? I think so, if they can be kept together.

[Anthony342]

Yeah, I've seen that too. Doesn't mean boxing wasn't professional before that.