James Toney - would he be a champion in the 80s

[billeau2]

Dude.. Um, Toney fought an admirable fight against Peter.. I repeat Samuel Peter.

There are no guarantees even Mike Tyson could have beaten Peter but if we take a 2 fast Tyson victory over Peter as given then that's really about it...

Could you imagine Spinks, any version against Peter?

Toney at HW simply has too much chin and power for guys like Witherspoon and Holmes I am sorry.

Yeah yeah I know Holmes shocked old Mercer and all that but really, Mercer did not apply half the pressure or pack quite the punch that PEter did.

Toney would crunch Spinks who was quite frankly a chinless, powerless, spineless weakling by comparison to Toney.

Those are simply the facts mate.

this post speaks for itself, like so many others. It is a permanent record and testiment to the ******ity of el Elroido. As said, for many reasons Spinks is a horrible match up for Toney.

Using a horrendous plodder like peter as a point of comparison regarding Spinks is really silly. yes Toney is talented enough to fight heavyweight when the division is so weak that peter reigns supreme... peter never had the mobility or speed to compare to spinks.

[billeau2]

When James was at his best he was beyond 160, he couldn't make that throughout his career, to thick and heavy bodied. I like him best from 168 to 175 and he would do well at light heavy. He doesn't bring power but he has good methodology because he is a multidimensional fighter. When he finds a weakness he can exploit it and his defense can keep him up right and out of trouble. His down fall could be mixing it up with good punchers or getting out boxed by size and reach.
He's tough to stop but at the cruiser and open weights he gets tko'd by punchers. He doesn't bring power with him so he can't keep Evander honest. Even an older Larry Holmes maintained a good enough work rate to breeze by him.
A great fight would be Spinks vs James at 175lbs. I'll take Spinks in a good fight. I don't see him getting out scored by James.
James could hang in there with the ATG's at 175lbs.
Some would be to much for him but he was a very resourceful young man.
Ray

Ray who do you think was a better counter puncher than Toney in these divisions?

[Elroy1]

this post speaks for itself, like so many others. It is a permanent record and testiment to the ******ity of el Elroido. As said, for many reasons Spinks is a horrible match up for Toney.

Using a horrendous plodder like peter as a point of comparison regarding Spinks is really silly. yes Toney is talented enough to fight heavyweight when the division is so weak that peter reigns supreme... peter never had the mobility or speed to compare to spinks.

99% of any reader who comes across this thread will see me as I know they will, a single guy using reason and logic completely smashing a small band of religious no hopers totally at odds with reality.

That is simply the fact. You should refer to my NChristo reply because it suits you nearly identically. Except you I am convinced KNOW you are being a nut bag and know what your saying is defintely wrong.

You are a worst kind of poster really because you choose to promote garbage for your own social standing amongst old timers. There may also be other possible motivations behind your views but I am not sufficiently up with your background to determine yet but nostalgism and social profit is a major driving force for your religious devotion.

Praise the ****ing boxing lords Bill!

[billeau2]

99% of any reader who comes across this thread will see me as I know they will, a single guy using reason and logic completely smashing a small band of religious no hopers totally at odds with reality.

That is simply the fact. You should refer to my NChristo reply because it suits you nearly identically. Except you I am convinced KNOW you are being a nut bag and know what your saying is defintely wrong.

You are a worst kind of poster really because you choose to promote garbage for your own social standing amongst old timers. There may also be other possible motivations behind your views but I am not sufficiently up with your background to determine yet but nostalgism and social profit is a major driving force for your religious devotion.

Praise the ****ing boxing lords Bill!

You know what i am thinking also? do you hear yourself? Have you even watched Spinks fight? or Toney for that matter? Do you know WHY Spinks is held in such high regard? or is that also unimportant?

I don't think you have done any of the above elroid i really don't. i don't need the approbation of my peers, i tell things the way i see them, but hey you know that because you know what i am thinking right?

[NChristo]

You know what i am thinking also? do you hear yourself? Have you even watched Spinks fight? or Toney for that matter? Do you know WHY Spinks is held in such high regard? or is that also unimportant?

I don't think you have done any of the above elroid i really don't. i don't need the approbation of my peers, i tell things the way i see them, but hey you know that because you know what i am thinking right?

He's seen Spinks - Tyson so he knows everything about Spinks, don't you know ?, we 'nut bags' that know nothing of the sport.

Ignoring the child though, imagine a Qawi vs Toney match up, that's FOTC material right there, not sure who takes it but I'd favour Toney in a war, no knockouts happening here just a fantastic display of defense and offense from both in the phone booth.

[billeau2]

He's seen Spinks - Tyson so he knows everything about Spinks, don't you know ?, we 'nut bags' that know nothing of the sport.

Ignoring the child though, imagine a Qawi vs Toney match up, that's FOTC material right there, not sure who takes it but I'd favour Toney in a war, no knockouts happening here, just a fantastic display of defense and offense from both in the phone booth.

yeah! A lot of guys that match up well in these two eras, a lot of potential barn burners...and Qawi Toney would be one of the best.

[joemama]

After Hagler retired, yes.

[Ray Corso]

.."Ray who do you think was a better counter puncher than Toney in these divisions"..........

No one, the only problem through the years with James was him getting into great shape to be able to up his work rate. If he wants to play D all night he doesn't have to be in shape his anticipation and reactions are top tier level.
However to win over the best he needs to turn up the offensive side and that means expending energy and accepting some abuse.
James always reminded me of Archie Moore physically and his methodology!
At 160lbs. James vs Jake would be a crazy match up, their styles and form would be a weird sight to see.
James is a favorite of mine but not over 175, he doesn't bring the power shots to mess with the men that could punch hard and bring a solid work rate!
Ray

[billeau2]

.."Ray who do you think was a better counter puncher than Toney in these divisions"..........

No one, the only problem through the years with James was him getting into great shape to be able to up his work rate. If he wants to play D all night he doesn't have to be in shape his anticipation and reactions are top tier level.
However to win over the best he needs to turn up the offensive side and that means expending energy and accepting some abuse.
James always reminded me of Archie Moore physically and his methodology!
At 160lbs. James vs Jake would be a crazy match up, their styles and form would be a weird sight to see.
James is a favorite of mine but not over 175, he doesn't bring the power shots to mess with the men that could punch hard and bring a solid work rate!
Ray

Thats a great comparison with Moore. The reason his power doesn't carry would at least partially be because of his natural size I would imagine. Of course against the likes of Sam Peter, Rahman and Jirov Toney could get away with it...Moore could beat up a few heavy weights as well, but not Marciano lol!

Thanks Ray, I asked about his counter punching because I have always been fond of his counter punching ways.

[sonnyboyx2]

One thing is for sure, James Toney was one of the ATG fighters. Hall of Fame trainer Freddie Roach said, "James Toney was the greatest fighter i ever worked with".. Toney was good enough to out-box Mike McCallum, Reggie Johnson (good fighter) & Michael Nunn. He was "Robbed" against Montell Griffin (good fighter)..Toney was too tough and too skilled for Iran Barkley, Doug DeWitt, Hasim Rahman & Evander Holyfield.. Toney's chin was concrete and withstood the bombs of Holyfield, Rahman, Sam Peter & Roy Jones... Toney's knock outs of Prince Charles Williams & Tim Littles were brutal and legendary..James Toney at only 5'10'' with a 72'' reach was an amazing fighter, who should alway's be held in the very highest regard. By every boxing fan.