The AlexKid 'questions about punchers, chins, hiprotation etc.' superduper thread.

[McGoorty]

Power never does fully carry up the weight scale, that I have seen. But I sure have seen multiple examples of men moving up whose punch no longer kayoes their opponents senseless. Their power is never fully there, now that's a fact of life. Julian Jackson would not have seemed a devastating puncher to Dwight Braxton.

Duran is one fighter whose power was relatively stable. It certainly diminshed as he went up but remained good enough to stun or hurt his heavier opponents.

Do you think genetics plays a great part ?... also the type of training or job a fighter had when growing up.. I do, I also think it also needs a good hitting technique with things like getting a good hard shot on a guy with full leverage, the victim being on the end of a nearly fully extended shot.. and of course speed and timing, so if you have a fighter who has all these things, and by genetics and upbringing (ones job and training and general hardships as they develop).
I know I am going to cop it for this as some say oh here he goes again about Darcy but hold on... how many here know much more about him than a brief glimpse at his resume and record and a brief glimpse of the films of him fighting, I bet maybe 1 out of a 100 posters here and in all forums have any idea of his dimensions, his incredible bone mass from hitting iron with a hammer on the anvil day in day out all from an early age of 14. I read about the fight against Harold Hardwicke who although not anywhere near a great fighter was also much heavier and taller than Darcy and a great athlete in his prime (Hardwicke was an olympic swimmer as well as a general all round athlete and pugilist).. Hardwicke was immensely strong, a heavyweight as well with a very hard punch... Darcy said the hardest hitter he ever faced, Hardwicke knocked two of Darcy's teeth out in that fight.
Darcy replied with a blow onlookers said seemed to reverberate throughout the stadium, the big man was poleaxed with that single blow and needed to be helped up after being put to sleep. Darcy had a very good KO record for that time and if he wanted to could have made himself into a KO specialist but that would have been against good advice as his team believed (as I do) that going the all out slugger route deprives a fighter of many skills he needs to develop, far better I say to learn and to develop into a great all around fighter, all men have weaknesses, Darcy worked hard at eliminating any deficiencies in the skills a good boxer needs... anyway as this is not about great all around total fighters but about power hitting I will get to the dimensions... his actual physicality, all here who know anything about les was that he was incredibly strong. He was going to really struggle to stay under the middleweight limit and it clear from all the photos that he was becoming very very thickly built, although short at 5 foot 7, indeed had he lived I think he would have struggled by age 25 to be under 200 pounds.
How would his power be then at heavyweight proper I can only guess but he is sure going to hit twice as hard as when he KO'd Hardwicke. In fact the many contemporary comparisons with Langford are very close to the mark, some described him as The White Langford... both men had almost identical reach, maybe the two best in boxing annals, their reach was basically a bit over 7 inches longer than their height. The thing about blacksmiths is that their bones get incredibly strong, thick and very very dense, this is why Darcy was putting on so much muscle but not the short inflexible type but the flexible lean and long muscles, just like the other great Blacksmith / boxer Fitzsimmons, just the sort most great power hitters in boxing have always been built, Julian Jackson, Ernie Shavers, Tommy Hearns for modern examples.
I read much about Darcy from the doctors who examined him when he got to America, nearly every part of his body was bigger than nearly all the heavyweight champs up to Liston's time, biceps (including triceps of course) and all the other muscles, add his incredible reach to the fact all his dimensions apart from height was bigger than Rocky Marciano and the assets he had in speed and punching technique and that after he really began to be impressive like after the first Jeff Smith fight he NEVER had trouble in landing punches virtually at will because by now he had shown great boxing ability and of course had great footwork and speed. These are most of the reasons I say he was very very great and if had been able to avoid death from blood poisoning he had everything that could have made him the greatest... but as for this thread the lad was a massive hitter and by the time he fought Chip he had shown more desire for finishing his opponents before the final rounds, luckily as well he seemed impervious to even the heaviest blows because he had a great great chin... was this because of massive neck which he had ??? a question for another thread maybe but I have always equated a very very strong neck to being able to take heavy blows to the chin.

[McGoorty]

Pacquiao, Leonard, Hearns...possibly Duran?

Those are the stand out names in this category.

I can't argue with you listing them but they are far from being the ONLY ones.

[soul_survivor]

I can't argue with you listing them but they are far from being the ONLY ones.

I never said they are the only ones but they are certainly the best among the best.

I guess Morales still had some pop the further he moved up in weight but his level of competition wasn't as high as the ones I listed. Could an argument be made for JMM KOing Pacman?

Roy Jones still managed some pop against a much bigger Ruiz, if I remember he bloodied his nose.

David Haye is a very good example, as he is a genuine one punch KO artist at cruiser and heavy.

[Anthony342]

There should just be a rule saying you can't re-hydrate more than 10 pounds, for instance. Hell, an MMA fighter in a small promotion died a little while back dehydrating like crazy to make weight so that promotion has a rule about it now, so it's also unhealthy. Boxing and all of MMA should have a rule like this for fairness and health.

[The Old LefHook]

Are you aware that Guillermo Jones started off his career as a welterweight? Yeah, I have no idea how he did that either.

Have not paid attention to him.

[The Old LefHook]

Isn't G. Jones an easy case to figure? How many times has he failed dope tests? Doesn't that cleanly settle the case of how he did it?

[Fury4daWIN]

Isn't G. Jones an easy case to figure? How many times has he failed dope tests? Doesn't that cleanly settle the case of how he did it?

He took diuretics to make weight, not gain it. He'd probably be a heavyweight otherwise.

He's also the only fighter to stop Dennis Lebedev, in a brutal slugfest that's well worth watching if you haven't seen it. Lebedev, of course, punches like the clappers, but was unable to put a dent in Jones, while Jones in turn proceeded to turn Lebedev's face into a horror show.

He's about the best example of a fighter whose power not only carried up numerous weight classes, but his chin as well.

[Fury4daWIN]

I never said they are the only ones but they are certainly the best among the best.

I guess Morales still had some pop the further he moved up in weight but his level of competition wasn't as high as the ones I listed. Could an argument be made for JMM KOing Pacman?

Roy Jones still managed some pop against a much bigger Ruiz, if I remember he bloodied his nose.

David Haye is a very good example, as he is a genuine one punch KO artist at cruiser and heavy.

Haye is indeed a pretty good example. Probably the hardest punching cruiserweight to fight at heavy and have success there. Unlike a lot of cruiserweights, the added muscle Haye was able to put on really upped his punching power without sacrificing his speed. Adamek in comparison was a horrible featherfist despite regularly knocking guys down at LHW and CW.

Huck also carried his power up the one time he fought a prominent heavyweight in Povetkin. Povetkin's got a very good jaw, and Huck was regularly rocking him bad, and nearly had him out of there in the final round. Povetkin was left literally reeling on his feet.

[just the facts]

Hearns had fight ending power from welterweight to cruiserweight

[McGoorty]

I never said they are the only ones but they are certainly the best among the best.

I guess Morales still had some pop the further he moved up in weight but his level of competition wasn't as high as the ones I listed. Could an argument be made for JMM KOing Pacman?

Roy Jones still managed some pop against a much bigger Ruiz, if I remember he bloodied his nose.

David Haye is a very good example, as he is a genuine one punch KO artist at cruiser and heavy.

JMM I think always had good power but I never saw him as a poleaxing one shot hitter but as a guy who would land three great shots in one or two combos an the space a few seconds to get KO's... I don't think Roy Jones was ever gonna be a KO guy at heavyweight certainly not one punch, he hit Ruiz a thousand times... well lets face it Ruiz was a stationary bag yet he never even went down.... Les Darcy may have been able to drop him for good with his power, Roy was in my mind one of those men who knew just how to deliver the perfect punch, his timing was exquisite and those punches often KO a man because they never see it coming but with Darcy it is brute force and I suspect good timing but those two are very different. Joe Walcott was legendary for having maybe the best power p4p of all time, he was 5 foot 1 and would hit big men so hard they may have stayed hit for life with severe brain damage, I rate him far higher than Darcy or the other names we mentioned, but as I said guys like that are not really points fighters, it's always about the KO.