Wlad's Place in History Discussion

[McGoorty]

Ok.

Are you sure your NOSTALGIA isn't kicking in here? MAny many people share your view that we were tougher in our day.

Fact is, it is ALWAYS the SAME!

Fighters fight, they are happy when they win, sad when they lose, sometimes they get it so bad that they are maimed which usually occurs AFTER they are already "honourably" beaten anyway and I don't think "toughness" comes into play here from either the winner or the loser.

Do you really think a guy who loves to hurt people today and wants to and can take a lot of punishment back which serves to enrage him further, do you think this guy isn't as hearty as a similar specimen from the past? Based on what?

The ONLY difference is that the mental pressures and cut-throat edge that is forged from an increasingly harsh social system today produces violence on a scale unheard of in the past- where they are willing to take things further than before in order to drive their point home even further.

From a boxing viewpoint, ALL boxers are ALREADY the toughest specimens. It's just there are many more of them today for the sieve of selection and the best ones have superior records against a broader pool of opponents than in the past. And the champions BEAT these unparalleled class of opponents in turn.

as for individuals sure there will always be bad and dangerous thugs out there who will hurt you, I am just saying will plenty of evidence to back me up that it was more dangerous to be around the inner city in the late 20's and 30's in places like darlinghurst and Paddington than anywhere in Sydney today or since and even you cannot argue that back then the Police could beat you half to death and usually did just for looing at them sideways whereas the cops in Sydney and everywhere else in OZ are complete politically correct *******, i know my dad was a cop back in the days where he was allowed to beat you up for backtalking him or resisting arrest, hell I pity all the fools that tried, that was the 50's to 80's then the leftist ****heads made that impossible

[McGoorty]

The moment elroy enters, this thread goes full ******.

Back to normalcy now, Wlad is an ATG heavyweight, top 20 for sure, top 15 maybe. He could be higher if he comes back and beats Fury and then goes on to defend against someone like Wilder or AJ.

He sure does that... and I did say that head to head wasn't to feature high in this discussion, sure he beat old Ruby Bob Fitz but I rate Fitz higher in most respects, a 5 ft 7 middleweight should have to fight a 6 ft 7 super heavy, but we can talk resume and records

[Elroy1]

So far I've managed to SAVE some clarity and relevance to the thread more like it!

In terms of Wlad, had he retired before Fury with no further loss on his record, his legacy would have been exactly the same as if he retired right now after the loss and even if he retires if he loses the rematch too.

And if he WINS the rematch then he improves his status only slightly.

It is still head and shoulders above anybody else in history no matter whcih way you slice it.

And to answer McGoorty's little questions there, I have a good one....

It's what I call how to properly honour the past..

You see the nutbags mistakenly believe that the only way to honour the past, the way a History section should operate, is that all the ancient boxers should be mythologically upheld to a ficticious standard than no future boxer could compare to. And all extant boxers are to be ridiculed and rubbished in order to "preserve" the establishment.

I think different.

I think that the History section should be used as a place to reminisce about the history and development of the great sport without pitting them in fantasy fights with modern boxers.

But if it must be done, it is possible to honour the past AND the present at the same time.

The obvious quality of today's boxers, which far exceeds the past boxers in absolute terms can be viewed as having had that quality made possible by the hard work and efforts and bravery of all that came before them.

The heights of Wladimir Klitschko could hot have been reached were it not for Larry Holmes and Joe Louis..

The training techniques of Manny Steward and Freddie Roach could not have been made possible without their exposure to former coaches and so on...

This is the proper way to honour boxing history and any other method is a discredit to real history by inventing a fictional story to take its place.

[BattlingNelson]

I think it's clearly too early for a thread like this.