Boxers in the Octagon

[Ben Bolt]

I was very impressed, watching Holly Holm (33-2-3 as a boxer) dominating UFC:s “Tyson lady” Ronda Rousey.

I don’t know much about MMA, but isn’t it a rare thing that great ex-boxers become successful in the octagon?

(And as a pure boxing fan, I always stand behind the ex-boxer when entering a MMA fight.)

[krazyn8tive]

I was very impressed, watching Holly Holm completely dominating UFC:s “Tyson lady” Ronda Rousey.

I don’t know much about MMA, but isn’t it a rare thing that great ex-boxers become successful in the octagon?

(And as a pure boxing fan, I always stand behind the ex-boxer when entering a MMA fight.)

Couture took James Toney down right off the get go when they fought a few years back. He knew better. Rousey was too big headed and got humbled (hopefully)

[NChristo]

Although he got choked out against Kimbo who isn't exactly a good mma fighter in any aspect.

[juggernaut666]

Rousey not being a pure striker did excellent and actually landed the more big shots in round one and buckled Holm at the end of the last minute...at the 51 second mark to be exact.,she was more tired from chasing Holm which her corner should have said stop rushing in all the time for the second round..what actually won the holm fight for her was her kick boxing and knowing how to escape and arm submission attempt on the ground....lets keep this in perspective a kick k.od Rousey not a punch...Holm is more mui thai style in MMA.

Randy Couture has defeated two pro boxers...James toney of course and a 6'4 300 pound monster Toney Halme who was the Finland HW boxing Champion.....It was actually coutures first MMa fight ever and he won in exactly one minute with a choke.

For boxing history purpose on the forum thread ...heres the first ever real form of any boxing champ took place in UFC 4 1994 Melton Bowen a intercontinental HW champion vs UFC's champion at that time. It was also the first fight where anyone came in with mma gloves on before they were sanctioned.






This vid is Frye vs Ramirez...Frye is the first registered pro boxer to win a UFC fight in 1996.......hes also a wrestler and 2nd degree black belt in judo.....






And just for the sake of it the WTF vid fight right here... Trevor Berbick vs Takada...Japan superstar pro wrestler/ Pancration fighter....lol........

[ShoulderRoll]

Holm used mostly boxing to dominate the first round. Good in-and-out footwork plus nice lateral movement. Had Rousey looking clueless and walking into punches.

However I will be the first to admit that she wouldn't have pulled that off if she didn't also have good takedown defense. Holly actually outgrappled Ronda the few times they clinched up or went to the ground.

[Eff Pandas]

Its extremely rare for a former boxer to have success in the octagon. The problem for boxers has been they don't train or have experience in other combat sports & thats a road to failure for anyone in the octagon.

Holm is a special case. Its not well known but Holm was actually a kickboxer for a couple years before she was even a boxer so she's had a more transferable skill set to octagon fighting than most boxers ever do from the jump. Her boxing trainer is also one of the foremost MMA trainers in the business & has been working with probably the #1 MMA trainer/strategist in the business for years. If more boxers had the history or got involved with the braintrust Holm has been involved with boxers would have a lot more success than they do in the octagon.

There was a former boxer of about 20 fights (18-2 record or something like that iirc) who had a solid amount of success in MMA who's name I'm not recalling right now, but beyond that I think the most notable boxer who's had success in MMA might be Butterbean lol.

[Scott9945]

Holm used mostly boxing to dominate the first round. Good in-and-out footwork plus nice lateral movement. Had Rousey looking clueless and walking into punches.

However I will be the first to admit that she wouldn't have pulled that off if she didn't also have good takedown defense. Holly actually outgrappled Ronda the few times they clinched up or went to the ground.

I'm really looking forward to the rematch. RR showed up in in piss poor shape for this last one.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

I'm a huge mma fan and have watched ufc since ufc 1.. I have watched it evolve into a legit sport. And I have been a boxing fan even longer and is my favorite so I have always kept a keen eye on boxing as a technique as it relates to being used in mma..

Few things to understand about boxing in mma.. The boxing stance is horrible for mma because the lead leg is horribly exposed to kicks and takedowns.. That's why you see most successful mma strikers are kickboxers because they have more striking options with kicks and use a more squared up stance that allows for better takedown defense.. So in terms of practicality, the Muay thai striking techniques and stance are better suited for mma.. The punching technique is similar (straight shots, etc) just comes from a different stance with not the full power that a boxer has due to the boxing stance. So basically they give up some punching power for better takedown defense and utilizing kicks..

That's the main reason why you haven't seen much boxing in mma.. But here has been some aspects of boxing that have shined thru the years in mma..

Brief history
Art jimmerson was a ranked cruiser that fought Royce Gracie in the very first ufc. He was quickly taken down and submitted.. Best known for wearing a boxing glove on his jab hand in the octagon.

Late 90s, early 2000s you saw some guys that trained in boxing like vitor Belfort, Nick diaz, chris lytle.. They knew how to throw some hands.. Nick diaz was basically a paul williams, just walking forward throwing a hundred arm punches a round..

George st. Pierre started training with Freddie roach and was the first guy to really use the jab much like how a hopkins or winky would use the jab.. Watch the koscheck rematch and george basocally jabs him to death in the same way barrera did rocky Juarez in the rematch. Pierre was the first guy to really use the jab to dictate a fight, much like a boxer..

James toney came in, had zero chance, especially vs a hall of famer like couture.. Easily take down and submitted..

Ray mercer fought former ufc champ Tim Sylvia and brutally ko'd him in a few seconds, showing that if a real boxer lands, they are gonna do serious damage no matter who you are in the octagon..

Holly holms probably had the best display of boxing in mma history.. Her lateral movement, southpaw left hand, counter, leads, she absolutely destroyed RHonda and then finished her with the head kick. Best show of boxing in the history of mma


The one thing that mma guys need to steal from boxers is body shots.. The Muay thai guys really arent proficient with body punching as they usually attack the body with kicks. I see time and again, an mma fighter hurt his opponent against the cage, and the hurt fighter covers upstairs yet the offensive fighter just head hunts. No one goes to the body against the cage..

[billeau2]

One of the primary problems when boxers fight MMA, along with a lead leg stance, is how the body becomes vulnerable to a takedown when a jab is thrown. Boxers are accustomed to avoiding a jab but one way to defend against a jab in MMA is to step in when the jab is retracted. This means that as the person brings the jab back, the ribs and body are not protected by the elbow if the fighter throwing the jab is in lead hand position.

One solution to this problem has been for MMA guys to throw hooking blows, because of the angle the person is not exposed to being grabbed under the elbow. Another solution I used to work out when I was working with guys was to throw the jab at a downward angle with a corkscrew type movement, so the opponent could not come under the elbow...and if they tried one could use an elbow to strike upwards.

Another thing to keep in mind: If one is throwing aggressive punches, and keeping the opponent on the back leg,or on the heels, then the puncher has some insurance against getting taken down. It is dangerous for a grappler to have to transfer weight and then go for the take down, when the grappler is in the boxer's strike zone.

A big thing for a boxer to learn is how to use the sprawl and his/her weight when a grappler is trying to get position, including against the side of the cage if need be.

[Anthony342]

I'm a huge mma fan and have watched ufc since ufc 1.. I have watched it evolve into a legit sport. And I have been a boxing fan even longer and is my favorite so I have always kept a keen eye on boxing as a technique as it relates to being used in mma..

Few things to understand about boxing in mma.. The boxing stance is horrible for mma because the lead leg is horribly exposed to kicks and takedowns.. That's why you see most successful mma strikers are kickboxers because they have more striking options with kicks and use a more squared up stance that allows for better takedown defense.. So in terms of practicality, the Muay thai striking techniques and stance are better suited for mma.. The punching technique is similar (straight shots, etc) just comes from a different stance with not the full power that a boxer has due to the boxing stance. So basically they give up some punching power for better takedown defense and utilizing kicks..

That's the main reason why you haven't seen much boxing in mma.. But here has been some aspects of boxing that have shined thru the years in mma..

Brief history
Art jimmerson was a ranked cruiser that fought Royce Gracie in the very first ufc. He was quickly taken down and submitted.. Best known for wearing a boxing glove on his jab hand in the octagon.

Late 90s, early 2000s you saw some guys that trained in boxing like vitor Belfort, Nick diaz, chris lytle.. They knew how to throw some hands.. Nick diaz was basically a paul williams, just walking forward throwing a hundred arm punches a round..

George st. Pierre started training with Freddie roach and was the first guy to really use the jab much like how a hopkins or winky would use the jab.. Watch the koscheck rematch and george basocally jabs him to death in the same way barrera did rocky Juarez in the rematch. Pierre was the first guy to really use the jab to dictate a fight, much like a boxer..

James toney came in, had zero chance, especially vs a hall of famer like couture.. Easily take down and submitted..

Ray mercer fought former ufc champ Tim Sylvia and brutally ko'd him in a few seconds, showing that if a real boxer lands, they are gonna do serious damage no matter who you are in the octagon..

Holly holms probably had the best display of boxing in mma history.. Her lateral movement, southpaw left hand, counter, leads, she absolutely destroyed RHonda and then finished her with the head kick. Best show of boxing in the history of mma


The one thing that mma guys need to steal from boxers is body shots.. The Muay thai guys really arent proficient with body punching as they usually attack the body with kicks. I see time and again, an mma fighter hurt his opponent against the cage, and the hurt fighter covers upstairs yet the offensive fighter just head hunts. No one goes to the body against the cage..

You sometimes see them body punch, but body kicks are more common. Hell, Bas Rutten's body kicks were so well known that whenever someone else landed a good hard body kick to get a stoppage, they'd even call it a "Bas Rutten liver kick".

And no, boxers so far haven't been too successful in MMA, but boxing is being used more and more in the sport as some fighters prefer it, since if you throw a kick a fighter could fall victim to a leg sweep or a single leg takedown, but with boxing there is more balance. Chuck Liddell and Paul Buentello have been two hard hitting boxers in MMA and are good examples of the "sprawl and brawl" style. So any kind of striker, be it a boxer, kickboxer muay thai fighter, is only as successful as their takedown defense, which in the early days of MMA, was practically non existent with any striker, which is why back then it was a style vs. a style and now is a fighter against a fighter. Over time, more fighters started cross training in different disciplines and only recently have they used boxing more often. Some for a while now have even worked with boxing trainers to improve their striking. The cross training became more common when Mark Coleman learned kickboxing from former opponent Maurice Smith and Coleman helped Smith learn wrestling. Even the younger Gracies have trained plenty in boxing and kickboxing, but have competed far less in MMA and more in BJJ competitions in recent years. Those early UFC tournaments proved the importance of grappling, submissions and ground fighting and later fights proved that, once they cross trained and learn to defend against takedowns and submissions, that kickboxing and later, boxing, were also viable styles to use in an MMA fight as well.