Ali vs Wilt

[Anthony342]

Yep. Not saying Mercer or Holyfield won against Lewis. Just that those guys knew how to use their size advantages and others were able to win, despite a size disadvantage.

[Elroy1]

Yep. Not saying Mercer or Holyfield won against Lewis. Just that those guys knew how to use their size advantages and others were able to win, despite a size disadvantage.

Hey man.. TWO guys managed to win against LEwis, and that was from nothing but freak bombs against a very LAZY Lewis.

In form, nobody came close to beating Lewis, Vitali aside.

Mercer had a good fight, as did Holyfield but they got soundly and obviously beaten. That they survived Lewis is testament to their hard chins, not their bloody jabs!

And back to the 2 Lewis beaters being "small"...

Muhammad Ali never fought anbody of the combined skills, conditioning and strength/power and durability of Oliver McCall..

As for Hasim Rahman...

Take a look...

http://www.boxnews.com.ua/photos/334/hasim-rahman32.jpg

That's all you need to know about "little" Rahman.

This guy could have knocked both George Foreman and Muhammad Ali out ACCIDENTALLY from the rumble he generated when entering the ring!

He could fundamentally box better than Ali imo, SANS all the show boating, and had approximately 2ce the strength and power of a prime Foreman.

He is a Super-Liston.

The only difference is that Rahman had to ALWAYS fight quality Supers whereas as Foreman and Ali got to leisurely always fight Cruiser bums.

Rahman and McCall would have been undisputed imo, even WITH a drug addiction, back in the lowest point in HW history you call the "golden age".

[Anthony342]

So sad. You almost started to make sense, then ruined it after the start of a decent post.

[Scott9945]

So sad. You almost started to make sense, then ruined it after the start of a decent post.

Are you trying to say that you don't accept Hasim Rahman as a Super-Liston?

[juggernaut666]

Are you trying to say that you don't accept Hasim Rahman as a Super-Liston?

Listons fought about 50 fights..out of them around 33 or so were about 200 pounds or under,a guy 180 pounds broke listons jaw and beat him....you cannot write off a giant like Rahamn who fought the likes of Holyfield and almost won and k.od Lewis...he was also Tysons sparring partner for a bit. Liston started his career at 200 pounds and filled in about 210 in his prime. These are the real statistics.



You guys use popularity as a measuring stick all the time,...yes you will win on the names ,you wont have a real genuine point however in real head to head match ups. You cant compare Liston to Rahman when no one like Rahman was around at that time...lets be realistic,Liston was 6'1 210 in his prime.Rahman was 6'3 240...both had similar reach which is a moot point here.


You cant use the skill card either...Rahman is a proven fighter for his era. you can write off non popular fighters all you like....we don't know how Rhaman would do in the 50's or better yet Liston if we transport him in the 90's...he wouldnt look so big and be intimidating as he was then...and there would be bigger better fighters waiting for him! the 90's era was as strong as any era in boxing history.

Liston was the lone Bully in the playground in HIS era....had he been in Rahmans he would be standing around a school yard of them,all averaging around 6'3 230. yes this matters if you rely on out strengthening your opponents like Foreman...most would probably take Sonnys lunch money too....

[Scott9945]

Listons fought about 50 fights..out of them around 33 or so were about 200 pounds or under,a guy 180 pounds broke listons jaw and beat him....you cannot write off a giant like Rahamn who fought the likes of Holyfield and almost won and k.od Lewis...he was also Tysons sparring partner for a bit. Liston started his career at 200 pounds and filled in about 210 in his prime. These are the real statistics.



You guys use popularity as a measuring stick all the time,...yes you will win on the names ,you wont have a real genuine point however in real head to head match ups. You cant compare Liston to Rahman when no one like Rahman was around at that time...lets be realistic,Liston was 6'1 210 in his prime.Rahman was 6'3 240...both had similar reach which is a moot point here.


You cant use the skill card either...Rahman is a proven fighter for his era. you can write off non popular fighters all you like....we don't know how Rhaman would do in the 50's or better yet Liston if we transport him in the 90's...he wouldnt look so big and be intimidating as he was then...and there would be bigger better fighters waiting for him! the 90's era was as strong as any era in boxing history.

Liston was the lone Bully in the playground in HIS era....had he been in Rahmans he would be standing around a school yard of them,all averaging around 6'3 230. yes this matters if you rely on out strengthening your opponents like Foreman...most would probably take Sonnys lunch money too....

Everything to you is always size. It doesn't mean nearly as much as you think. You can't even begin to compare Rahman's skill set to Sonny Liston's. Rahman take Liston's lunch money? Not happening.

[juggernaut666]

Everything to you is always size. It doesn't mean nearly as much as you think. You can't even begin to compare Rahman's skill set to Sonny Liston's. Rahman take Liston's lunch money? Not happening.

Nope that is why I included his win over Lewis ,his match with holyfield these are facts because they happened...are you telling me Rahamn is not skilled to be able to accomplish these things? Where is Sonnys skills better?they fight practically the same ,the main difference is Sonny looked like a giant next to his opponents hitting guys that are 200 pounds well whos to say Rahamn doesn't inflict the same damage?. If Liston has more power its not by much,the big difference here is accuracy and more important speed,this translates into a better fighter.


Rahmans chin is also proven ,listons is not,his strongest guy was Williams who was 215 pounds ,so that is of opinion where you think that would place him against another big Hw who wasn't that big compared to what we are comparing. I know Williams was no Lewis or Holyfield that's for sure. yes he dropped some fights to huge hitters like tua who he also drawed with and Maskaev but he was never embarrassed by a mediocre 180 pounder........so do we go by Rahmans win over Lewis or Listons win over Williams? I certainly know the answer to that one.

Answer this do you really think Liston is a better fighter than Lewis? smh

Fast forward to about 5: 30 in the video below and tell me how GREAT these guys who liston usually fought were again?





What I found interesting scanning Listons record is all the guys he fought that had lost the previous fight....... you would rip Rahman up if they switched resumes that's for sure...consistency does not equal quality!And less loses certainly proves little if we swirtch the opponets...of course listons were more skilled right?

[Elroy1]

Rahman is a technically skilled boxer.

His skills are generally really underrated.

He was WINNING against Holyfield when the fight was stopped from an UNFORTUNATE haematoma, a freak occurance.

He wasted LEnnox and Sanders and he basically put it to many of the other top boxers of the era too.

Liston by comparison was SLOW as a wet wig and HIGHLY uncoordinated!

On the contrary, it is an insult.. A STINKING INSULT for you to even compare Liston's skills to Rahman's, let alone promote Liston's as BETTER!

And I haven't even mentioned the size/strength/power yet!

At 240lbs, built like a Sherman tank and sporting one of the longest reaches in all of boxing (and not an inflated one like Liston's either, Rahman's was real), nothing like Rahman even existed, he would walk through Liston and his entire era like a lion entering an unarmed village.

Let's not forget, Liston's BEST WIN was PATTERSON!

This guy...

http://www.thetitlefight.com/wp-cont...dPatterson.jpg

Only 2 words can describe your posiiton here...

NUT BAG!

[Elroy1]

Nope that is why I included his win over Lewis ,his match with holyfield these are facts because they happened...are you telling me Rahamn is not skilled to be able to accomplish these things? Where is Sonnys skills better?they fight practically the same ,the main difference is Sonny looked like a giant next to his opponents hitting guys that are 200 pounds well whos to say Rahamn doesn't inflict the same damage?. If Liston has more power its not by much,the big difference here is accuracy and more important speed,this translates into a better fighter.


Rahmans chin is also proven ,listons is not,his strongest guy was Williams who was 215 pounds ,so that is of opinion where you think that would place him against another big Hw who wasn't that big compared to what we are comparing. I know Williams was no Lewis or Holyfield that's for sure. yes he dropped some fights to huge hitters like tua who he also drawed with and Maskaev but he was never embarrassed by a mediocre 180 pounder........so do we go by Rahmans win over Lewis or Listons win over Williams? I certainly know the answer to that one.

Answer this do you really think Liston is a better fighter than Lewis? smh

Fast forward to about 5: 30 in the video below and tell me how GREAT these guys who liston usually fought were again?





What I found interesting scanning Listons record is all the guys he fought that had lost the previous fight....... you would rip Rahman up if they switched resumes that's for sure...consistency does not equal quality!And less loses certainly proves little if we swirtch the opponets...of course listons were more skilled right?

Correct..

If you take Liston's record...

Knock off the bums...

Knock off the cruisers...

Knock off the guys coming off loss streaks...

Nothing remains..

OR alternatively...

Knock off the bums...

Knock off the cruisers...

Knock off the former cruisers...

Again, nothing remains.

Liston is possibly the slowest HW champion ever, even slower than 7'2" 320lb Valuev, which at 210ls and 6'1" is utterly pathetic. He also has among the most manufactured records of all time, rivalled only by LaMarClark and the like. It makes the manufactured records of Muhammad Ali and Deontay Wilder look stellar by comparison.

Bottom line is, is that Liston was a bum and the fact that he was able to dominate the 50's era is testament to how bad that era really was.

We can look back to the 50's and understand that that was the criteria of the day and see greatness for what Liston achieved.

But trying to sell that he is in any way an equal of Hasim Rahman, a guy who could outbox him blind folded and KO him with the flick of a jab, well that's just sick!

[juggernaut666]

Correct..

If you take Liston's record...

Knock off the bums...

Knock off the cruisers...

Knock off the guys coming off loss streaks...

Nothing remains..

OR alternatively...

Knock off the bums...

Knock off the cruisers...

Knock off the former cruisers...

Again, nothing remains.

Liston is possibly the slowest HW champion ever, even slower than 7'2" 320lb Valuev, which at 210ls and 6'1" is utterly pathetic. He also has among the most manufactured records of all time, rivalled only by LaMarClark and the like. It makes the manufactured records of Muhammad Ali and Deontay Wilder look stellar by comparison.

Bottom line is, is that Liston was a bum and the fact that he was able to dominate the 50's era is testament to how bad that era really was.

We can look back to the 50's and understand that that was the criteria of the day and see greatness for what Liston achieved.

But trying to sell that he is in any way an equal of Hasim Rahman, a guy who could outbox him blind folded and KO him with the flick of a jab, well that's just sick!

I think Listons was a very formidable fighter,tough ,mean streaked and had great size witgh power ,ppl have to under stand that he wouldn't have those advantages post 60'sas he did before . When you have bigger more polished fighters like Rahman ,ppl like scott use the well he was average skilled since he was bigger claim,they use this card because they know if you added 30 pounds to Liston and made him 2 inches taller that it would produce a much more dangerous fighter and they would have to concede ! The very video ,Listons opponent is under 5'8 ,yet size is none relevant then they will give an example of a Williams and make him into a giant?