Originally posted by Yaman
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Joe Frazier was not a great fighter
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Originally posted by butterfly1964 View PostAgain, my point is that the version of Ali that Frazier beat was waaaay better than the version of Tyson that Holyfield beat.
End of discussion.
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Originally posted by brownpimp88 View PostYou cant ****in prove it, end of discussion. It was a legit win for holyfiled, whether you like it or not. Hell ali had trouble against a fighter like norton 3 times, holyfield and lennox are way better than norton.
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Originally posted by Ali/Marciano View PostWhat is it with you and the new fighters? Is it because thats who you looked up to? Holyfield and Lennox are great but to say they are way better than Norton is just not true. Prime Norton was a dangerous fighter and I pick him to beat Holyfield. Possibly Lennox as well but I think his power would be too much.
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Originally posted by brownpimp88 View PostYou cant ****in prove it, end of discussion. It was a legit win for holyfiled, whether you like it or not. Hell ali had trouble against a fighter like norton 3 times, holyfield and lennox are way better than norton.
IMO there are less people who would beat the 1971 version of Ali than people who would beat the 1996 version of Tyson.
In my opinion:
Prime Muhammad Ali UD 15 1971 Ali
Prime Sonny Liston TKO 13 1971 Ali
Prime George Foreman UD 15 1971 Ali
Prime Mike Tyson UD 15 1971 Ali
Prime Joe Louis UD 15 1971 Ali
Prime Joe Frazier UD 15 1971 Ali (this actually happened)
and...
Prime Muhammad Ali TKO 6 1996 Tyson
Prime Sonny Liston KO 2 1996 Tyson
Prime George Foreman TKO 2 1996 Tyson
Prime Mike Tyson KO 8 1996 Tyson
Prime Joe Louis TKO 10 1996 Tyson
Prime Larry Holmes TKO 10 1996 Tyson
Prime Joe Frazier TKO 7 1996 Tyson
Prime Jack Johnson UD 15 1996 Tyson
Prime Lennox Lewis UD 15 1996 Tyson
Prime Evander Holyfield TKO 9 1996 Tyson
Prime Rid**** Bowe UD 15 1996 Tyson
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Originally posted by butterfly1964 View PostI admit that Tyson was a very good win for Holyfield. All I'm saying is that Ali was a much bertter win for Frazier.
IMO there are less people who would beat the 1971 version of Ali than people who would beat the 1996 version of Tyson.
In my opinion:
Prime Muhammad Ali UD 15 1971 Ali
Prime Sonny Liston TKO 13 1971 Ali
Prime George Foreman UD 15 1971 Ali
Prime Mike Tyson UD 15 1971 Ali
Prime Joe Louis UD 15 1971 Ali
Prime Joe Frazier UD 15 1971 Ali (this actually happened)
and...
Prime Muhammad Ali TKO 6 1996 Tyson
Prime Sonny Liston KO 2 1996 Tyson
Prime George Foreman TKO 2 1996 Tyson
Prime Mike Tyson KO 8 1996 Tyson
Prime Joe Louis TKO 10 1996 Tyson
Prime Larry Holmes TKO 10 1996 Tyson
Prime Joe Frazier TKO 7 1996 Tyson
Prime Jack Johnson UD 15 1996 Tyson
Prime Lennox Lewis UD 15 1996 Tyson
Prime Evander Holyfield TKO 9 1996 Tyson
Prime Rid**** Bowe UD 15 1996 Tyson
they would be 12 rounders though.
but I agree with you on most accounts.
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Originally posted by butterfly1964 View PostI admit that Tyson was a very good win for Holyfield. All I'm saying is that Ali was a much bertter win for Frazier.
IMO there are less people who would beat the 1971 version of Ali than people who would beat the 1996 version of Tyson.
In my opinion:
Prime Muhammad Ali UD 15 1971 Ali
Prime Sonny Liston TKO 13 1971 Ali
Prime George Foreman UD 15 1971 Ali
Prime Mike Tyson UD 15 1971 Ali
Prime Joe Louis UD 15 1971 Ali
Prime Joe Frazier UD 15 1971 Ali (this actually happened)
and...
Prime Muhammad Ali TKO 6 1996 Tyson
Prime Sonny Liston KO 2 1996 Tyson
Prime George Foreman TKO 2 1996 Tyson
Prime Mike Tyson KO 8 1996 Tyson
Prime Joe Louis TKO 10 1996 Tyson
Prime Larry Holmes TKO 10 1996 Tyson
Prime Joe Frazier TKO 7 1996 Tyson
Prime Jack Johnson UD 15 1996 Tyson
Prime Lennox Lewis UD 15 1996 Tyson
Prime Evander Holyfield TKO 9 1996 Tyson
Prime Rid**** Bowe UD 15 1996 Tyson
When he fought tyson in 1996, tyson was the favourite to win the fight. Everyone was riding his ****, i'm surprised you didn't know that. I dont think jack johnson would have ever beat tyson, thats my opinion. I have seen footage of him and i consider bowe and tyson superior to him.
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Originally posted by brownpimp88 View PostHolyfield has a better overall resume than frazier does, thats my whole point man. Frazier quit by the age of 32, so he would have had more losses if he kept boxing. His big wins are over ali and foster. The rest of the guys he beat were contenders, they arent big time boxers. Ring Magazine considers holyfield to be the superior boxer and i agree. He's beaten rid**** bowe once, and bowe would have crushed all of fraziers opponents except ali and george. He beat qawi twice, who is in the hall of fame. He has beat more than 10 different heavyweight champs in total.
When he fought tyson in 1996, tyson was the favourite to win the fight. Everyone was riding his ****, i'm surprised you didn't know that. I dont think jack johnson would have ever beat tyson, thats my opinion. I have seen footage of him and i consider bowe and tyson superior to him.
gotta agree with you there. Tyson, Bowe and Holyfield are superior to Johnson in my oppinion.
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Originally posted by Southpaw Stinger View Post[/B]
gotta agree with you there. Tyson, Bowe and Holyfield are superior to Johnson in my oppinion.
However, I don't think Johnson would lose to any version of Holyfield and Bowe. Johnson was more skilled than either of these men. He was a smarter boxer than Holyfield who carried a bigger punch, plus Holfield had a tendency to brawl, which Johnson didn't. Johnson knew what he was doing in the ring, and he was very tricky. And Bowe would have no more than a puncher's chance against Johnson. His defense was average at best and Johnson would take advantage of every mistake he made.
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Originally posted by Ted Spoon View PostWithout Joe Frazier, Ali's greatness dwindles, considerably.
Without Joe Frazier, Ali cannot boast 2-1 in their trilogy, which was considered great initially because of the fighter Frazier was n' how his style complemented Ali's.
Without Joe Frazier, George Foreman does not have his best win, which in turn lowers the significance of Ali's victory over George.
Joe Frazier's legacy is not only that of a great fighter, but it played a key role in underlining the significance of his rivals finest hours.
Joe Frazier's true greatness can never be over-stated, partly because it is always under-stated.
wihtout ali frazier did not show his toughness he would have been considered a paper champion with Ali being the REAL champ.
Frazier would have lost against foreman further proving that he wasn;t a REAL champ.
without that trilogy we probably wouldn't consider frazier in the top 25 of boxers but wiht it he should be in anybodies top ten.
they both owe each other alot and yet they still can't get along!
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