How many fighters of the last 15-20 years can be considered ATG's/legends

[Elroy1]

Are you for real!!!? he Beat Jones? at the point where he beat Jones anyone could beat Jones...not the same Jones!!! And I thought I was too ******* with jones thiinking when tarver beat him he still had his moxy!!

Vitalie lost to lewis when he stepped up. Thats just reality junior...you know that world that happens after you leave the basement? Vitalie was talented and solid. If he was great he would have AT LEAST stopped Lewis...not beat him but stopped him.

lets not fret....karma's a b1tch and Holy gave some to Lewis from the same spoon Vitalie drank from. Holy not known to be one of the more cerebral fighters actually was suprisingly on regarding his first fight with Lewis.
Lewis complained bitterly about the decision (rightfly so) and Holy said..."Instead of complaining when you had the chance you should have knocked me out, went for it, removed all doubt." Kinda makes sense in a crude sort of way don't it?

Vitalie had a chance to step up...he even knew he was cut against Lewis...that was the time to say fvk it..and go for it...risk it. You say all kinds of things about Ali but when Ali was given the chance he stopped Liston and foreman, as an underdog, thats ATG. I know you don't like to hear that, but think about it.

Lets see what Fury does....will he be willing to risk getting put on his arse to really try to go after Vlad? See there are many good fighters...greatness? another story really.

Long winded garbage as usual...

Vitali retired Lewis.. R.E.T.I.R.E.D him, and he did it in an even greater fashion than simply beating or KOing him.

A KO can be a freak occurance even when it's clean, just as LEnnox's KO losses themselves were! And when we're talking about a ridiculous cut stoppage like with Vitali, considering Lennox's antics after his own non-controversial KO losses, well things don't add up.

Vitali did outbox him, that much is undeniable.

What is fact is that Vitali put the fear of life in Lewis..

Basically Lewis, pulled a Rid**** Bowe and dumped his belt in order not to fight Vitali.

You can make a case that Lennox Lewis himself committed one of the most shameful acts in all of boxing right up there with Rid**** Bowe and Floyd Mayweather.

Except where Rid**** and Floyd are positively flogged for their cowardice, Lennox Lewis is actually PRAISED for it?

Absolute bollocks and you know it!

[Scott9945]

False.

Vitali's resume is top 3 or 4 all time.

And to address the question of who else would be a hofer well that is simply a misnomer.

The dominance of Vitali was so great that it didn't allow other boxers to shine who otherwise would have.

The opposite is true, in an era where there are many atg and hofers, NOBODY was really that great because if they were, they wouldnt have allowed others.

This well established concept is known as the "super-predator" (of which Vitali is one of the only examples).

Of course everybody knows this, this is nothing new, it's blatantly obvious!

So then your response (when translated) is that Vitali never beat a future hall of famer. Or even somebody who will get even one vote for the HOF.

All you do is blow smoke out of your a$$.

[Elroy1]

So then your response (when translated) is that Vitali never beat a future hall of famer. Or even somebody who will get even one vote for the HOF.

All you do is blow smoke out of your a$$.

No Scott..

My response, is quite obviously that SEVERAL of Vitali Klitschko's opponents would have been HOFers, it's merely difficult to pin down which ones because all of them did well besides their fights with Klitschko.

The only reason these guys are not generally considered so is because Ultra ATG Vitali vanquished all comers so thoroughly.

The fact still remains that Vitali WILL be inducted into the HOF and ATG status. So what can you say about that?? Why do you think that is huh??

:yep:

[Scott9945]

No Scott..

My response, is quite obviously that SEVERAL of Vitali Klitschko's opponents would have been HOFers, it's merely difficult to pin down which ones because all of them did well besides their fights with Klitschko.

The only reason these guys are not generally considered so is because Ultra ATG Vitali vanquished all comers so thoroughly.

The fact still remains that Vitali WILL be inducted into the HOF and ATG status. So what can you say about that?? Why do you think that is huh??

:yep:

I like Vitali. I've met him and seen him fight live. I'll be happy to see him get elected to the HOF. But his resume ****** and you calling it one of the best ever is absurd. Your logic of speculating what his opponents might have done against other crappy opponents is totally convoluted, tbh.

[Anthony342]

Are you for real!!!? he Beat Jones? at the point where he beat Jones anyone could beat Jones...not the same Jones!!! And I thought I was too ******* with jones thiinking when tarver beat him he still had his moxy!!

Vitalie lost to lewis when he stepped up. Thats just reality junior...you know that world that happens after you leave the basement? Vitalie was talented and solid. If he was great he would have AT LEAST stopped Lewis...not beat him but stopped him.

lets not fret....karma's a b1tch and Holy gave some to Lewis from the same spoon Vitalie drank from. Holy not known to be one of the more cerebral fighters actually was suprisingly on regarding his first fight with Lewis.
Lewis complained bitterly about the decision (rightfly so) and Holy said..."Instead of complaining when you had the chance you should have knocked me out, went for it, removed all doubt." Kinda makes sense in a crude sort of way don't it?

Vitalie had a chance to step up...he even knew he was cut against Lewis...that was the time to say fvk it..and go for it...risk it. You say all kinds of things about Ali but when Ali was given the chance he stopped Liston and foreman, as an underdog, thats ATG. I know you don't like to hear that, but think about it.

Lets see what Fury does....will he be willing to risk getting put on his arse to really try to go after Vlad? See there are many good fighters...greatness? another story really.

Well I'd say Vitali went for it there. He didn't quit against Lewis. And that's a good point about knocking out the best to be an ATG or at least getting a shutout on the scorecards. Lewis himself even said on the Legendary Nights final episode about his fight with Tyson "You only get credit for knocking people out" or something to that effect.

[Anthony342]

You say that, but don't mention any names.

You know a person is full of it when they make statements without breaking down why.

Or providing any evidence of their statements in addition to the breakdown.

[Elroy1]

Case study #1

Muhammad Ali's resume against Vitali Klitschko's resume..

- Vitali Klitschko would never have been allowed to fight the opponents of Muhammad Ali, and should he have fought anything of such low quality, it would be considered worse padding than Deontay Wilder and had he facedit, he would have knocked every single one of them out, virtually in the first round! Yet Ali's resume is considered in OTNB circles to be the best and Vitali's the worst..

Every single one of Vitali's opponents is tougher than nearly every single one of Ali's and it's basically beyond any serious debate. Any argument to the contrary in H2H terms is hand wavable nutbaggery.

CONCLUSION: HOF and ATG is only relative to the era you are fighting in.

Case study #2

Evander Holyfield and Tomasz Adamek...

Both boxers are very closely comparable in abilities. The only difference being that Evander is a product of the American consumerist hype machine which exists to "sell" it's products, where as Adamek is from the raw former Soviet boxing machine where actual performance and winning was all that mattered. "Theatrics" had nothing to do with it.

Now both were roid munchers beyond any doubt but we will hand wave that for this purpose.

Of course given the above, Tomasz would be gasped at for being mentioned in the same sentence as Holyfield, despite the obvious equitability. And it is easy to understand why when we see that LEnnox Lewis struggled with Holyfield as opposed to Vitali Klitschko who utterly dominated Adamek!

If Evander Holyfield is an ATG and HOFer, it stands to reason that Adamek would equally have earned that distinction as well EXCEPT, unfortunately for him, he was exposed to a super-predator that kept other contenders down.

Think about it, wins over Grant, Golota, Arreola, Chambers, Cunningham, McBride as well as other less notable but who would be potential champion material back in the day like Guinn and Walker for example among others and a great cruiser career too! Holyfield could have faced Golota and Grant but chose not to!! WE seen how Holyfield struggled with Bowe and Golota spanked Bowe. It's also no stretch to imagine Grant giving Holyfield problems either because he was in reality a less mobile version of Adamek really!

^^^ But none of that is ever considered right?

CONCLUSION: Vanquished Klitschko opponents = potential HOF career SHUT DOWN! Vitali is responsible for RUINING more HOF careers than any other boxer!

And let's finally think about Lennox, the only reason he got to fight 2 other HOFers during his career (Tyson and Holyfield)) was because they had already established themselves before the rise of LEnnox. When they were building their HOF status, LEnnox was either a fledgeling pro or still an amateur! Some might even argue Holyfield and Tyson were not even prime when he took them on!

Facts at their best!

[Elroy1]

In case this important point was missed it deserves special reiteration...

The only reason there have been no other HW HOFers distinguishable in the last 12+ years is because that's how long the Klitscko's have been utterly dominantly and OPPRESSIVELY holding back the division.

Such superiority is in a class of its own and terms like HOF and ATG do not even do these achiements justice.

What is a great credit to them, destroying HOF careers dead in the water before they even take flight, is being spun into a NEGATIVE feature, that they haven't been able to struggle against anybody enough for them to also be considered HOF.

They would be better off boxing at 50% ability, letting their opponents shine more and gaining more credit for the struggle LOL

[LacedUp]

Case study #1

Muhammad Ali's resume against Vitali Klitschko's resume..

- Vitali Klitschko would never have been allowed to fight the opponents of Muhammad Ali, and should he have fought anything of such low quality, it would be considered worse padding than Deontay Wilder and had he facedit, he would have knocked every single one of them out, virtually in the first round! Yet Ali's resume is considered in OTNB circles to be the best and Vitali's the worst..

Every single one of Vitali's opponents is tougher than nearly every single one of Ali's and it's basically beyond any serious debate. Any argument to the contrary in H2H terms is hand wavable nutbaggery.

CONCLUSION: HOF and ATG is only relative to the era you are fighting in.

Case study #2

Evander Holyfield and Tomasz Adamek...

Both boxers are very closely comparable in abilities. The only difference being that Evander is a product of the American consumerist hype machine which exists to "sell" it's products, where as Adamek is from the raw former Soviet boxing machine where actual performance and winning was all that mattered. "Theatrics" had nothing to do with it.

Now both were roid munchers beyond any doubt but we will hand wave that for this purpose.

Of course given the above, Tomasz would be gasped at for being mentioned in the same sentence as Holyfield, despite the obvious equitability. And it is easy to understand why when we see that LEnnox Lewis struggled with Holyfield as opposed to Vitali Klitschko who utterly dominated Adamek!

If Evander Holyfield is an ATG and HOFer, it stands to reason that Adamek would equally have earned that distinction as well EXCEPT, unfortunately for him, he was exposed to a super-predator that kept other contenders down.

Think about it, wins over Grant, Golota, Arreola, Chambers, Cunningham, McBride as well as other less notable but who would be potential champion material back in the day like Guinn and Walker for example among others and a great cruiser career too! Holyfield could have faced Golota and Grant but chose not to!! WE seen how Holyfield struggled with Bowe and Golota spanked Bowe. It's also no stretch to imagine Grant giving Holyfield problems either because he was in reality a less mobile version of Adamek really!

^^^ But none of that is ever considered right?

CONCLUSION: Vanquished Klitschko opponents = potential HOF career SHUT DOWN! Vitali is responsible for RUINING more HOF careers than any other boxer!

And let's finally think about Lennox, the only reason he got to fight 2 other HOFers during his career (Tyson and Holyfield)) was because they had already established themselves before the rise of LEnnox. When they were building their HOF status, LEnnox was either a fledgeling pro or still an amateur! Some might even argue Holyfield and Tyson were not even prime when he took them on!

Facts at their best!

You're right. Ali wouldn't have been allowed to fight most of Vitali's resume.

Reason being Ali generally fought top 10 fighters throughout his career, and Vitali didn't.

Back in Ali's days the standards for a champion was a lot higher.

[BKM-2010]

- He claims shared responsibility for uprooting the flag of HW boxing and replanting it on the opposite side of the world after 150 years and bringing an entire nation of 300m ppl to it's knees.

wtf did i just read

Elroy you seem to be ducking LacedUp who is the only one willing to go into it with you.