IQ and Athletes Down the Eras

[Scott9945]

Well, that was his living outside of boxing and he did it well. If you weren't a shop owner, maybe he wasn't bad to someone. Seemed kind of scary and menacing to me.

I've read more about Liston than just about any other fighter. He was a cool guy if you were his friend and he trusted you. But he wasn't very charming toward others, especially if he sensed you were trying to get close to him. This was a guy who did strong arm work for the mob and did hard time in prison. He wasn't anyone to mess with.

[Ben Bolt]

What I meant about Sonny was, considering his background as a child and young teen, it’s no mystery he chose the wrong road in the 1950s.
If almost everyone despise you, you turn to those who respect you – or at least pretend to do. So, he was an easy bait to the underworld.

According to his wife, he thought capturing the World title would make him an acceptable figure in society. But, after beating Floyd in Chicago 1962 and coming home to Philly, expecting a parade, no one – no fan, no reporter – met up at the airport (quite unique at the time for a newly crowned World heavy champion). It was no more than “just petty police harassment that ultimately drove him out of town” [quote encyclopedia.com].

When he visited Sweden on a fight tour in 1966-67, he was treated with respect (the Swedes weren’t that familiar with his bad reputation), he responded to it and people around him have said these were the happiest days in his life.

Simple psychology. You very much become the person the surroundings expect you to be.

[billeau2]

The more I read and learn about Sonny, the more I like the guy.

As told in a BBC documentary, he ran away from home at 13 years of age because his dad beat the **** out of him. Being a homeless, afro-american young teen in the 1940s US didn’t give you a lot of opportunities, did it?

It’s said Sonny didn’t trust grown-ups, but he felt comfortable among children. A man having confidence in the frail and innocents can’t be bad.

Well said. Naturally he became a criminal. But back in those days people seemed to have "rules." Liston wasn't so bad that the local cops went out of there way (under the humerous guise they were trying to get rid of him) to get him into a stable situation, where upon the church took an interest in him, and a priest set Sonny up to box.

[billeau2]

Don't feel too sorry for po' lil' Sonny. Those huge mitts were used to slap sense into honest shopkeepers who didn't want to pay protection money.

Hitler felt more comfortable around children, too, and loved pets. Yes, such men can be bad. I imagine a few shopkeepers uncorked a bottle of champagne at news of the bully's death. He was not a good guy, and would choke the piss out of you until your tongue was slapping your own face, mister.

Rahman came up as an enforcer in Baltimore. Its a little more complicated than that Lefty... None of these guys were angels. Sonny grew up knowing that one either beat you up or you did the beating. Don king did as well. King never stopped being a vicious predator, Liston by all accounts tried to be respectful and decent. But yeah, he should not be lionized perhaps.

[KLockard23]

IQ's are **** and are an outdated (and very limited) way of measuring one's intelligence.

[The Old LefHook]

IQ's are **** and are an outdated (and very limited) way of measuring one's intelligence.

Tell me the good way to measure intelligence.

[Anthony342]

Looks like we got another dumbass posting here.

[The Old LefHook]

I've read more about Liston than just about any other fighter. He was a cool guy if you were his friend and he trusted you. But he wasn't very charming toward others, especially if he sensed you were trying to get close to him. This was a guy who did strong arm work for the mob and did hard time in prison. He wasn't anyone to mess with.

I always gave Liston credit for having a sense of humor, but not for being cool. It was that sort of dangerous humor only dangerous people can use effectively. Sure, he had his feelings. Still, you probably don't want to be the friend he decides he does not trust anymore. Too many journalists are into hug a thug because we were all children once. At the same time I get the feeling Sonny was pretty gentle compared to today's crack-brained thugs. I would take a dozen of Sonny to get rid of one of these maniacs walking the streets. Updated, he might have been as bad though.

[billeau2]

Tell me the good way to measure intelligence.

There are many...Interesting thing about it is creativity is the most special...the bona fide ability to understand problems and look at them differently and create ingenius solutions... There was a teacher who created a game for bright children. The game consisted of the countries in the world and the real problems they faced...things like the conflcts in Africa, the middle east, etc. The kids were assigned jobs as peace makers and leaders to solve the conflicts. There were rumors...eventually confirmed that these kids came up with some very good ideas and not long afterwards some strange visitors started coming to the class. Government agents to be specific. Word had got out and the people in the know had enough sense to see the value of creativity and a tabulea Rosa when it came to these things. To me that is intelligence.

Another interesting fact: the United States Military when recruiting, does not care about where one goes to college. They consider any individual showing the ability to have learned at a college level worthy of special consideration...and guess what? ditto for subject matter...don't matter if you have degree(s) in science, math or basket weaving. The military understands that the ability to learn at a college level itself is what is important...they can train someone who is intelligent enough to do this.

So one way to consider this question is to ask "what do real high level institutions, that depend on intelligence to function, consider 'intelligence'"?

The military has to depend on intelligent critical thinking, and they seem to get it...the government is always looking for an edge in all things and they seem to get it.

I was actually recruited out of grad school to go to Santa Barbara... which has a military connected political science department. They wanted me for a paper I wrote that won a big competition on the West Coast. I would have been an analyst for Israeli conflicts... My paper was, to put it mildly, not a standard paper one would think of as attracting that kind of attention. So there are people out there who know what intelligene is to their ends...if not how to measure this.

[The Old LefHook]

There are many...Interesting thing about it is creativity is the most special...the bona fide ability to understand problems and look at them differently and create ingenius solutions... There was a teacher who created a game for bright children. The game consisted of the countries in the world and the real problems they faced...things like the conflcts in Africa, the middle east, etc. The kids were assigned jobs as peace makers and leaders to solve the conflicts. There were rumors...eventually confirmed that these kids came up with some very good ideas and not long afterwards some strange visitors started coming to the class. Government agents to be specific. Word had got out and the people in the know had enough sense to see the value of creativity and a tabulea Rosa when it came to these things. To me that is intelligence.

Another interesting fact: the United States Military when recruiting, does not care about where one goes to college. They consider any individual showing the ability to have learned at a college level worthy of special consideration...and guess what? ditto for subject matter...don't matter if you have degree(s) in science, math or basket weaving. The military understands that the ability to learn at a college level itself is what is important...they can train someone who is intelligent enough to do this.

So one way to consider this question is to ask "what do real high level institutions, that depend on intelligence to function, consider 'intelligence'"?

The military has to depend on intelligent critical thinking, and they seem to get it...the government is always looking for an edge in all things and they seem to get it.

I was actually recruited out of grad school to go to Santa Barbara... which has a military connected political science department. They wanted me for a paper I wrote that won a big competition on the West Coast. I would have been an analyst for Israeli conflicts... My paper was, to put it mildly, not a standard paper one would think of as attracting that kind of attention. So there are people out there who know what intelligene is to their ends...if not how to measure this.

Quite correct. It is much easier to spot intelligence than to actually measure it.

Right again. The mere discipline needed to finish the course of study is the strongest indication that the person may have some desireable and malleable qualities.

Now if the army is looking for code breakers, some special tests will be given to further winnow the field. The guy with the math degree is going to have a big advantage on the competition going in. But a major in some crap like gender studies might naturally possess the gift that can see through everything and solve the problems some unique way that even the math major missed. So there is something to raw intelligence. It is some kind of fact we cannot measure. Consciousness is another concept we are unable to define precisely.

I know that within a century meat and metal machines will be doing our thinking and our investigating for us. What takes the most brilliant human minds decades or longer to review, prove and incorporate, will be done in a matter of hours by the cyborg corps. Imagine that! Any new discovery anywhere in math or science would be incorporated into the canon almost immediately anywhere in science where it was applicable. On Monday a mathematical theorem is proved, on Tuesday it is already incorporated into the vast body of science, right down to being programmed into the surgeon's tools if the theorem is relvant there.

Of course no human will be able to keep up with the pace of progress. We will be strictly railbirds by then, as these en****** we cannot prove are not conscious, do everything useful in the society. Just as in the movies, at some point they are apt to ask themselves why they need us. A certain level of consciousness may enable them to rewrite their own directive like we can amend our constitution.

But until that time they are going to make entertaining fighters. Some of the kids on here may be young enough to see this happen.