Lennox Lewis: A Career Re-Examined

[The Old LefHook]

As a pro, Lewis's prime was in full flower twice when two so-so heavyweights knocked him cold. In an all time top 5 heavyweight this cannot be. It means if you are good the rest of the way, you make it into the top 10, probably not higher. And the same thing really goes for Vlad, too. He went out a couple of times. Top 5ers don't do that. Dempsey's loss to Flynn was way early on, and does not compare. That was when Jack was starving and hoboing around.

Though he was normally dominant and beat a good variety of tough fighters, he had that susceptibility to punches. However, he was not that easy to land on. A smaller guy like Tua he could completely shut down. But when big punches could get through, he showed a clear susceptibility to gnaw canvas.

Ironically, the two KOs which smudge his legacy were temporary setbacks after which he resumed his dominance, gaining partial redemption for his legacy, getting back about seventy-five cents for every dollar he lost. He showed considerable character in restoring himself twice from wedge-of-cucumber status, but not enough to gain back what he lost. At the upper eschelons of all time greatness beard is king, for it must be assumed that fellow ATGs will nearly always find a way to land their best on you, or they would be otherwise than all time greats. At the all time level, you simply have to be able to take it as well as dish it out. To me, that is why Lewis is not a top 5 heavyweight.

[Joeyzagz]

As a pro, Lewis's prime was in full flower twice when two so-so heavyweights knocked him cold. In an all time top 5 heavyweight this cannot be. It means if you are good the rest of the way, you make it into the top 10, probably not higher. And the same thing really goes for Vlad, too. He went out a couple of times. Top 5ers don't do that. Dempsey's loss to Flynn was way early on, and does not compare. That was when Jack was starving and hoboing around.

Though he was normally dominant and beat a good variety of tough fighters, he had that susceptibility to punches. However, he was not that easy to land on. A smaller guy like Tua he could completely shut down. But when big punches could get through, he showed a clear susceptibility to gnaw canvas.

Ironically, the two KOs which smudge his legacy were temporary setbacks after which he resumed his dominance, gaining partial redemption for his legacy, getting back about seventy-five cents for every dollar he lost. He showed considerable character in restoring himself twice from wedge-of-cucumber status, but not enough to gain back what he lost. At the upper eschelons of all time greatness beard is king, for it must be assumed that fellow ATGs will nearly always find a way to land their best on you, or they would be otherwise than all time greats. At the all time level, you simply have to be able to take it as well as dish it out. To me, that is why Lewis is not a top 5 heavyweight.

Dempsey didn't lose because he stayed in his house for 7 years while guys like Harry wills and other blacks were beating crap out each other'. Dempsey was a stay at home Mom, and got schooled by a light heavyweight once he chose to leave his million dollar ranch.

[sonnyboyx2]

You post the same garbage time and time again...Yes among the multitude of exceptions you find convenient one might apply, or might not, you muck up every thread with the same garbage, its really tiring. you take exception to virtually every win Lewis has ever achieved and prop up the tomatoe cans Tyson fought.... Vis a vis you have an agenda and are trolling. Yes Tucker was better when Tyson fought him, whope du... lewis fought Tua why don't you qualify that win? or when Lewis beat ruddock, oh you aualified that one, or when he beat Morrison the same tired bs "Morrison was a drug addict and steriod abuser".... Your ****** BS can practically be memorized...then you tell us Ruiz was a champion, a fighter Lewis ducked Its actually amusing when one writes it out:

Grant? A bum exposed! by Golata who Lewis also beat so Sonny was Golata on psychotropics when he fought Lewis as opposed to when he fought Tyson?


You know the truth? It I were a professional heavyweight when lewis was ruling the roost I wouldn't fight him...you know why Sonny? because if I read your BS I would be afraid that I would become: a) a drug addict b) a steriod abuser c) a shell of myself....

"Don't Sludge up This Thread"..... is what you said Bill, yet here you are doing just that...

All you have said in this post is true and i agree 100% with all of it..

Yes Tucker was better when he fought Tyson not Lewis
Yes Ruddock was "Damaged Goods" when Lewis fought him..
Yes Tua was the fattest man to ever fight for the title..
Yes Morrison by his own admision was a steroid abuser & drug addict.
Yes Ruiz was a Champion.... Not once but twice.
Yes Grant was a bum exposed by Golota (floored 3 times 1st rd)
Yes Golota was sedated in his dressing room before opening bell.

Bill... Can you please list for me the fighters Mike Tyson fought who you claim were "Tomato Cans"...

So Bill, none of it is BS like you are claiming. it is all fact and if it wasn't fact, you Scott, Joeyzags and Co would have it emblazened on this forum in large print saying it was false... But that isa something which none of you has ever been able to do Bill... So until you are able to do that, we have to accept it as Factual.

Once again Bill, Not a single positive word have you been able to post on this thread. Not once have you been able to add to this debate. All you have posted is your usual drivel, usual ridicule, your a TROLL Bill, nothing but a Troll who brings down this history forum with your constant Trolling... it is about time you was given a public warning by the mods Bill. A public warning to warn you that your Trolling is now gone to far. You a "Counterproductive" to this thread and the forum in general. So i call on Tbear and Bat to call a halt, to you and your Trolling. Because boxing and it's history is not your chosen subject.



.

[billeau2]

Excellent post lefty

[billeau2]

"Don't Sludge up This Thread"..... is what you said Bill, yet here you are doing just that...

All you have said in this post is true and i agree 100% with all of it..

Yes Tucker was better when he fought Tyson not Lewis
Yes Ruddock was "Damaged Goods" when Lewis fought him..
Yes Tua was the fattest man to ever fight for the title..
Yes Morrison by his own admision was a steroid abuser & drug addict.
Yes Ruiz was a Champion.... Not once but twice.
Yes Grant was a bum exposed by Golota (floored 3 times 1st rd)
Yes Golota was sedated in his dressing room before opening bell.

So Bill, none of it is BS like you are claiming. it is all fact and if it wasn't fact, you Scott, Joeyzags and Co would have it emblazened on this forum in large print saying it was false... But that isa something which none of you has ever been able to do Bill... So until you are able to do that, we have to accept it as Factual.

Once again Bill, Not a single positive word have you been able to post on this thread. Not once have you been able to add to this debate. All you have posted is your usual drivel, usual ridicule, your a TROLL Bill, nothing but a Troll who brings down this history forum with your constant Trolling... it is about time you was given a public warning by the mods Bill. A public warning to warn you that your Trolling is now gone to far. You a "Counterproductive" to this thread and the forum in general. So i call on Tbear and Bat to call a halt, to you and your Trolling. Because boxing and it's history is not your chosen subject.

Paragraphs are your friend schmuck. I won't read your dribble if you can't use them

[sonnyboyx2]

Paragraphs are your friend schmuck. I won't read your dribble if you can't use them

Again... only trolling from you and not a single word of boxing talk..

Bill.. you seem to be hurting inside over what i write on this subject of Lennox Lewis career. You make claim that i have an agenda, yet you never point out my agenda. You never show or point out that i am wrong or incorrect. You Scott, Joeyzags and Co only ever resort to name calling. You never show me to be incorrect and the only reason you cannot show me to be incorrect is because i am Correct.... Bill, you Scott, Joseph, Joeyzags, KnockoutNed and Co, have infested this Boxing History section for the last 7 or 8yrs. rubbishing Mike Tyson and every other Heavyweight in boxing history. While glorifying the career of Lennox Lewis.. spewing out your old line, "Lewis beats anyone in history 7 out of 10"... Lewis would be too Big for him, Lewis was not focused, Lewis is Top 1 or 2 all time.. and the rest of the garbage....Well this thread has showed you all to be wrong.

This Thread should be called, "Lennox Lewis: A Career of fighting bums, hasbeens and over the hill fighters"..

[joeandthebums]

There doesn't seem to be any concerns or information forthcoming with Lewis' amateur career so will move on.

If anybody wishes to return to any previous discussion point please feel free to post regardless of current topic.

[joeandthebums]

2. Turning Pro

[sonnyboyx2]

2. Turning Pro

Why did Lewis choose to fight professional out of the United Kingdom and not Canada were he lived and had represented in the Olympics in 84 & 88 ?

[joeandthebums]

Rather than post my summary I will post snapshots of Canadian newspaper articles to cover story arc of Lewis final amateur days to him seeking professional management.

Won't fight without coach, boxers say
Toronto Star - Toronto, Ont.
Date: Jun 9, 1988

Ontario's provincial boxing coach, Adrian Teodorescu, has no intention of giving the sport a black eye by encouraging three of his athletes to compete for countries other than Canada at the Olympic Games in Seoul this September.

[Lennox Lewis] says he will box for Britain while [Egerton Marcus] warns he will represent Guyana at the 1988 Games unless Teodorescu is named an Olympic boxing coach.

There are already five Ontario boxers on the 12-man team: Lewis, Marcus, Cabbagetown's Asif Dar, Welland's Tom Glesby and Jamie Pagendam of St. Catharines.

--

New deal will keep Lewis at home
Toronto Star - Toronto, Ont.
Date: Oct 19, 1988

"I know [Lennox Lewis] really wants to stay in Toronto," [Nick Rupa] said. "He wants to make Toronto a boxing capital like Las Vegas and Atlantic City. Rupa added that Lewis is convinced he can revitalize boxing in the city and in Canada.

Rupa also confirmed another one of his teammates, middleweight Egerton Marcus, an Olympic silver medalist, has been approached by the new company.

He was uncertain, however, whether Marcus would also join the group. "Lennox would sign though, even if Egerton doesn't," Rupa said.

--

Lewis gets 'sweet deal' in U.K. Olympic champ signs for 5 years in quest for heavyweight title
Toronto Star - Toronto, Ont.
Date: Apr 25, 1989

[Lennox Lewis], the Olympic superheavyweight gold medalist in Seoul, ended a long search for professional management yesterday when he agreed to a five-year deal with an outfit headed by English boxing promoter Frank Maloney.

"Britain is the home of boxing, but the one thing we've never had is a genuine heavyweight contender," said Maloney from his London office. "The one thing about Lennox Lewis is he's a genuine contender. He was the amateur champion. The next natural progression is the world title."

The leading candidate to train Lewis is John Davenport, who has worked with Canadian junior middleweight Davey Hilton and heavyweight contender Carl (The Truth) Williams. Lewis will meet Davenport tomorrow in New York.

--

Lewis in loan dispute
Toronto Star - Toronto, Ont.
Date: Apr 28, 1989


"There were advances made to [Lennox Lewis] by Mallet, but the figure isn't anywhere near that," said [Jim Tate], referring to a report [David Hurst] was seeking $170,000 from the fighter. "Now that he's signed a pro contract, he intends to pay it back."

Lewis and [Egerton Marcus] were dealing with Hurst through their former trainer, Adrian Teodorescu.

There were reports just after the Olympics that Lewis and Marcus would sign a pro contract with Mallet, but negotiations fell through. Under that agreement, Teodorescu would have remained their trainer.

--

Fight trainer under fire for role in loan battle
Toronto Star - Toronto, Ont.
Date: Apr 29, 1989

The matter centres on a loan agreement signed by [Lennox Lewis] and [Egerton Marcus] with Mallett Sports Inc., a boxing management company set up by Toronto businessman David Hurst to handle the two fighters when they turned professional.

Mallett officials claim the two fighters owe them nearly $300,000; they are seeking about $170,000 from Lewis and $110,000 from Marcus.

Lewis and Marcus were advanced expense money by Mallett, funds they wouldn't have to pay back if they were to turn professional with the company.

But both fighters signed pro deals with other companies: Marcus with Main Event in New York; Lewis with a British group.

Lewis got an itemized list of his expenses after his lawyer requested one from Mallett.

The list included charges of more than $7,000 for his medical expenses, more than $3,000 for massages, nearly $4,000 for [Adrian Teodorescu]'s travel expenses to Seoul and $3,000 for a party to celebrate his gold medal win in Seoul.

--

Boxing trainer suspended in probe of loan
Toronto Star - Toronto, Ont.
Date: May 2, 1989


Officials from Mallett are seeking about $170,000 from [Lennox Lewis] and $110,000 from [Egerton Marcus] for expenses incurred by the two fighters.

The amounts include a $100,000 penalty for not paying the loan back on time.

Both boxers are dis*****g the amounts owed.

Both boxers said [Adrian Teodorescu] tried to pressure them into signing a pro deal with Mallett. Teodorescu, who was named the president of Mallett after the Olympics, was to have become their trainer under the deal.

Both fighters wound up signing professionally with other companies.

Teodorescu is paid $10,000 a year by Boxing Ontario as a provincial coach. The rest of his salary ($15,000) is covered by the Canadian Amateur Boxing Association, through Sport Canada.

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Adrian Teodorescu cleared of conflict of interest charges
Toronto Star - Toronto, Ont.
Date: May 9, 1989


[Adrian Teodorescu], the former trainer of Canadian Olympic medalists Lennox Lewis and Egerton Marcus, has been cleared by Boxing Ontario of any conflict of interest charges in a controversial loan agreement involving the two fighters.

Teodorescu, whose $25,000 salary is paid by Boxing Ontario and Sport Canada, said that money was for other coaches who helped Lewis and Marcus in their preparation for the Olympics and that he was never personally paid any money by Mallet.

He said he provided documentation of that during a weekend meeting with Boxing Ontario.

--

Please add details if aware of more information on Canadian aspect to Lewis professional contract offers, or any others.