Felix Trinidad at Middleweight

[Sugar Adam Ali]

yeah tito's run was short lived and he lost to some HOF's in hopkins and wright. Tito vs taylor and pavlik would have been awesome, I think though they end up exchanging and he comes out on the losing end but you never know. The division is pretty week right now, he beats everyone but GGG and Canelo and even those I would like to see. Hes got a better chance against GGG I think due to that leaky defense, canelo is the faster and better boxer.

Tito smokes canelo... 154 or 160.... Tito destroys canelo,,,

[Thread Stealer]

Tito smokes canelo... 154 or 160.... Tito destroys canelo,,,

Definitely.

Forget about Trinidad, or Vargas...I wouldn't pick Canelo at 154 over Droopy Eyes Reid.

He needs to improve and show more before I would give him anything more than a slim chance against Tito.

So far, he's shown to be nothing more than a popular, decent titleholder in a weak division.

[soul_survivor]

Tito was good enough to win a title at MW via KO, showing us that his main attribute, which was his power, had carried well. It's just that he came up against an ATG MW who had superior skills and the perfect gameplan. Even then, Tito lasted 11 rounds, had his fair share of triumph and in parts, looked like he could maybe pull the fight back. But Bhop was just too much that night.

Tito was such an excellent fighter than fat, out of shape and well past his best he went 12 rounds with a decent version of Jones at lhw. Tito was damn good!

[Suckmedry]

GGG vs Tito would be epic but GGG sure as hell couldn't walk up to Tito and let that left hook touch him because thats a fast way to end up on your back i dont care how good your chin is.

[IMDAZED]

Trinidad had definitely fallen in love with his power by the time he hit 160.

Not to mention, the added weight made him much more flat footed. In his prime at welter, he glided around the ring, circling his opponent, feinting and jabbing before setting up bombs. And was much quicker.

Tito carried his power up and his experience. He'd probably be a champ at that weight today but I don't know if he beats a GGG, for instance. It would be interesting, that's for sure. Cotto and Canelo would get their heads knocked off though.

[boxinghead530]

I see a lot of people saying that Tito wasn't much at 160, and was a blown-up WW. I don't think that's quite accurate, as he was a big guy for WW, and also had a great short run at 154.

Trinidad had already started to fall in love a bit too much with his power (look at the Carr fight in 94' and then watch him in 00-01), but was still a guy with a lot of tools. Monster left hook, good straight right hand, heavy jab, picked punches well. Tito dominated the consensus #2 MW at the time in William Joppy. However, it was a pretty poor division. Joppy was a decent titleholder.

Trinidad got dominated by Hopkins, but Hopkins is an ATG. Then there were his wins over Cherifi and Mayorga, and his awful performance against Winky.

Overall, what are your opinions of Tito as a middleweight?

I think 154 was ideal for him at the time, 160 was a division too big but just how much moving up affected his abilities gets exaggerated. The guy lost to one of the greatest middleweights ever, and another excellent fighter in Wright.

He was still a very good fighter that I'd pick over recent lineal middleweight champs such as Cotto, Martinez, and possibly Taylor.

He did fine at 160 but he is not one of the best middleweights in history. His wins at middleweight were good but the competition wasn't that good. Joppy was Ok and a title holder, Cherifi wasn't much and Mayorga wasn't much either. On top of that he lost to Winky and Hopkins. I like I said he did fine at middle but not an ATG there at all, not even close.

[billeau2]

Trinidad had definitely fallen in love with his power by the time he hit 160.

Not to mention, the added weight made him much more flat footed. In his prime at welter, he glided around the ring, circling his opponent, feinting and jabbing before setting up bombs. And was much quicker.

Tito carried his power up and his experience. He'd probably be a champ at that weight today but I don't know if he beats a GGG, for instance. It would be interesting, that's for sure. Cotto and Canelo would get their heads knocked off though.

This...

I don't think joppy was much to hang ones's hat, or ones gloves in this case on...Tito like a lot of Borican fighters had very good technical ability in addition to his power...but its real simple really, great power at a lower weight becomes good or mediocre at a higher weight class and when a guy is getting older while they can still punch the feet slow down.

Against the likes of Canelo Trinidad had much better technical ability. Canelo does not really have the wind in the later rounds to deal with a version of Trinidad that could still move.

[Anthony342]

Why does one score more knockouts at a lower weight than when they move up in weight?

[billeau2]

Why does one score more knockouts at a lower weight than when they move up in weight?

Lets be a stickler and rephrase slightly: does this phenomenon happen in every weight class, a lot of the time?

I would say no. It tends to happen in all the weight classes except the heavyweights. When we look at guys who moved up from cruiser and light heavy they may, or may not, have been succesful, but there power appears to carry, for example Holyfield, Haye, even guys like Cunningham and Moore could drop heavyweights.

This KO percentage does, however seem to affect fighters in the low to middle weight classes. For example, just off the top of my flat head, Trinidad, Bronner, Duran.

This suggests to me that human beings max out with respect to punching power when a human being is at a certain weight. I don't know if there is an actual relationship where fighters are more, or less affected by weight in proportion to lighter divisions versus heavier divisions that are not heavyweight and this would be interesting to know> in a word: is it harder for a bantam weight to carry up than a middle weight?

From what we do know it would appear that a human being approaching around 190 pounds reaches a maximum power threshhold. This won't necessarily change if they get heavier. This is one reason that I maintain that a heavyweight weighing in at about 200-220 who is characteristicly "big" with big frame, heavy bones, well muscled, is still to this day the best heavyweight proportions. At this range one has mobility, strength, the potential for weighty punches and a good chin. But when guys are rehydrating in junior classes and are obviously bigger, or smaller than others in the lower weight classes it is an advantage.

one good example would be the hopkins Taylor fights. Taylor imo was beat both times but his strength and size bothered hopkins.

[Anthony342]

But how does the extra weight make someone less likely to get knocked out?