Calzaghe vs prime Eubank

[sonnyboyx2]

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Jesus ****ing christ mate!! Stop bringing up **** that has no goddamn bearing on this conversation! It. Does. Not. Matter. If. They. Wouldn't. Be. Top. Fighters. In. The. 90's! It doesn't matter that Ward beat them and is the real champion. We all know that. Ward is world class, but he's not the only world class fighter in the division. There isn't just one world class guy in each division. That's just the champion.



That is not what being world class means. You agree with it by default, but then keep bringing up whether they rate on an historical scale simply to disagree or whether they are the 'real' champion. I don't know if you're doing it out of ignorance or deliberately. That's got no bearing on what world class means.

World class is the top fighters of each division today. The level of world class fighters changes from era to era and doesn't mean only the very top guy. Today's world class fighters don't have to be as good as another eras world class fighters to still be world class. That's why there are different discussions, but world class means the top fighters of the current era in comparison with each other, not in comparison with other eras. The current crop of fighters. The guys at the top of the division right now, today, at this moment in time, are the world class fighters of today. Not the ATG's of the division, nor in terms of comparisons with completely different eras. No bearing! No relevance! Stop bringing it up!

If they would lose to the fighters of the 90's, that has absolutely no relevance to the discussion of whether they are the world class fighters of their division now. Today, not in the 90's. That's a discussion of historical greatness and a comparison of different eras. Two completely different things.

You might disagree with it, but that's what it means. That's the very definition of what it means.

Froch is not the champion, but he is without any doubt a world class fighter, as was Kessler, as is Ward. All of these guys are world class. They are at the top of their respective division from all the ranked fighters around the world, thus are the 'class' i.e. the best guys, of the division. That equals world class.

you are contradicting yourself and tieing yourself in knots.. i do not agree with what you are claiming, it is simply ****** what you are trying your hardest to convince.. Being a ranked fighter today does not make a fighter World Class.

Mikkel Kessler is nothing other than European level pro fighter.. i mention fighters from other era's like the 1990s because they are considered World Class, they are considered world class in any era unlike Kessler who is only considered world class in YOUR era

[billeau2]

you are contradicting yourself and tieing yourself in knots.. i do not agree with what you are claiming, it is simply ****** what you are trying your hardest to convince.. Being a ranked fighter today does not make a fighter World Class.

Mikkel Kessler is nothing other than European level pro fighter.. i mention fighters from other era's like the 1990s because they are considered World Class, they are considered world class in any era unlike Kessler who is only considered world class in YOUR era

One could say the following:

a professional fighter is a world class fighter because boxing is international

a division champion could be considered world class because they are at the top of the division which is international

there is no term "world class" that is used in boxing along the lines that a term like sandlot, professional, etc is used in baseball....

Some terms in boxing are relative some are not. ATG is not relative, though we have to look at standards that are applicable today.

I tend to think that fighters like kessler are solid...I agree that they are not great fighters, but I don't think there is disagreement on this point here.

[sonnyboyx2]

One could say the following:

a professional fighter is a world class fighter because boxing is international

a division champion could be considered world class because they are at the top of the division which is international

there is no term "world class" that is used in boxing along the lines that a term like sandlot, professional, etc is used in baseball....

Some terms in boxing are relative some are not. ATG is not relative, though we have to look at standards that are applicable today.

I tend to think that fighters like kessler are solid...I agree that they are not great fighters, but I don't think there is disagreement on this point here.

i agree with what you say in that Kessler is a SOLID fighter.... but world class i cannot have him. in my opinion Kessler is no worst and no better than dozens of european fighters we have seen over the last 50yrs compete at championship level. Kessler twice fought the best in the super-middleweight division and was soundly beaten both times.. Holding an alphabet title during his run up to his fights with Calzaghe & Ward is meaningless, he came into each of those fights as the underdog and rightly so... i class Mikkel Kessler on the same level as Tom Boggs, Karl Mildenburger, Graciano Rocchigiani & Vincenzo Nardiello...good but not world class

[BennyST]

http://reactiongif.org/wp-content/up...le-wow-GIF.gif

Urgghhhhh....the ******ity around here simply astounds sometimes.

Ok, last time.

I haven't contradicted myself once you muppet. That's what you've been doing. World class is changeable. It's not one standard level, because what is world class in one era i.e. the best in the world, might be much better than what is world class 50 years later.

I would consider the level of the 70's and 80's world class fighters to be much better than it is today in general. That is what the term means. That's the point of it. It defines the level or standard of fighters for that particular era.

It is simply the level of the best fighters in the world at the time. It does not matter if he's only as good as someone from 20 years before because that might have been a different level of overall talent, but at his time he is the level of the best fighters in the world, thus he is 'world class' for his time. That's the point of that particular term. That's why the term world class exists. To define the current level of ability for that particular generation/era, thus what is world class now might be different from what is world class in 20 years. It doesn't relate to the level of different eras.

If you come back again comparing him to people from completely different eras that have no relation to this...http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/284...ne-gun-o-s.gif

[billeau2]

Budweiser is a world class beer....i know cause the label says so....besides if you drink an atg beer like pilsner Ergel and piss it out you get a world class budweiser which tells me that if you take an Andre Ward, make him a one arm fighter....oh wait a one armed Ward beat up the Cobra....Im confused

[The Old LefHook]

I believe continental class may not be world class. Many fighters on all continents are masquerading or being promoted as world class when they are mere continentals. Holding your own with mere continentals from another continent or your own continent does not make you world class either.

Tyson Fury, for instance, is not a world class fighter that I know of. Not yet.

Sonny and Benbow both have valid points the other cannot see in their frustration. Ben knows the definition is an irrefutable place to stand. Sonny points out that most words have more than one definition under them, and even footnotes.

We all probably agree that both Kovalev and GGG have fought mostly or all continentals so far. They seem to smear the continental class all over the ring, so they make a compelling case that they are truly world class without fighting the cream of the crop yet. On the other hand continentals like Geale who keep getting the opportunity to step and lose every time, do not make a compelling case to me. They make a compelling case that they are continentals who managed to ge ahold of an imitation title once upon a time in today's corrupt game. Sure, they can fight the world class guys on world TV. But can they ever beat one of them or even give them decent competition?

Some fighters live deep in continental class and others live nearer the border between continental and world class. Junior Witter and Jeff Lacey were two guys probably from this region.

Many of the top European fighters live their whole careers near the border. Kessler may have been a lit bit over the border, but the cream of world class always had the number of the cream of the continentals it seems.

Not many doubt that Calzaghe was a world class fighter. At the same time it is true that he spent way too much of his career defending imitation trinkets against continentals masquerading or being promoted as worlders.

Ricky Hatton started out as a continental, but he had the sense to go world. Sometimes he got smashed, sometimes he did the smashing, but he went there and may even have been able to beat an un-juiced Pacquiao.

[sonnyboyx2]

I believe continental class may not be world class. Many fighters on all continents are masquerading or being promoted as world class when they are mere continentals. Holding your own with mere continentals from another continent or your own continent does not make you world class either.

Tyson Fury, for instance, is not a world class fighter that I know of. Not yet.

Sonny and Benbow both have valid points the other cannot see in their frustration. Ben knows the definition is an irrefutable place to stand. Sonny points out that most words have more than one definition under them, and even footnotes.

We all probably agree that both Kovalev and GGG have fought mostly or all continentals so far. They seem to smear the continental class all over the ring, so they make a compelling case that they are truly world class without fighting the cream of the crop yet. On the other hand continentals like Geale who keep getting the opportunity to step and lose every time, do not make a compelling case to me. They make a compelling case that they are continentals who managed to ge ahold of an imitation title once upon a time in today's corrupt game. Sure, they can fight the world class guys on world TV. But can they ever beat one of them or even give them decent competition?

Some fighters live deep in continental class and others live nearer the border between continental and world class. Junior Witter and Jeff Lacey were two guys probably from this region.

Many of the top European fighters live their whole careers near the border. Kessler may have been a lit bit over the border, but the cream of world class always had the number of the cream of the continentals it seems.

Not many doubt that Calzaghe was a world class fighter. At the same time it is true that he spent way too much of his career defending imitation trinkets against continentals masquerading or being promoted as worlders.

Ricky Hatton started out as a continental, but he had the sense to go world. Sometimes he got smashed, sometimes he did the smashing, but he went there and may even have been able to beat an un-juiced Pacquiao.

very good post

[BennyST]

Budweiser is a world class beer....i know cause the label says so....besides if you drink an atg beer like pilsner Ergel and piss it out you get a world class budweiser which tells me that if you take an Andre Ward, make him a one arm fighter....oh wait a one armed Ward beat up the Cobra....Im confused

Coopers mate, Coopers. GOAT. KO's both the pilsner, the pisswater...sorry, Budweiser, and Andre Ward.

[billeau2]

Coopers mate, Coopers. GOAT. KO's both the pilsner, the pisswater...sorry, Budweiser, and Andre Ward.

here in Baltimore we had/have Nati Boh. Just as with Absinthe one often had a very specific peculiar experience involving a 'fairy' natti Boh five dollar pitchers were guaranteed to induce a very specific headache the next morning, a headache which could best be described as the feeling one gets after reading a particularly incoherent jughead post where the jug felt aggreived.

[Anthony342]

Coopers mate, Coopers. GOAT. KO's both the pilsner, the pisswater...sorry, Budweiser, and Andre Ward.

Funny you say that because Grand Theft Auto 4 did a parody radio ad for Budweiser calling it Pisswasser haha:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fRHtiK8JNw