Trace That Technique

[NChristo]

I read the same Dempsey book. I do not remember Gans being given credit, though perhaps he was, but certainly recall the fall step discussion that Dempsey is such a proponent of. Gans was apparently kind of famous for the sound his jab stomp made.

Ah I think you're right, got a little confused, he did refer to Gans as being a prominent user and when you do the falling jab correctly it should make a similar sound to how it did when Gans used it.

[billeau2]

prior to boxing developing a vocabulary they used fencing technique where a foward lunge does look a lot like a stepping jab. Thing is fighters before the jab used that lunge punch and a foward hand lead instead of a jab. The foward hand lead was done with the hand turned upwards and the arm coming out like a piston, while the body schuffled into position if at all. Problem is that with a larger glove it becomes impossible, depending on how large the glove, to use the foward lead.

Dempsey noticed in his book a tendency for boxers at the time to throw punches with no body weight. With bigger "mufflers" as gloves were called pre Dempsey, one had to transfer more body weight into the punches. I have a theory here; i think that in an effort to transfer power with bigger gloves fighters had to find a different way to transfer weight into a punch. i can say as a swordsman that to stab, i.e. run a blade through one needs a very strong sense of when to transfer weight while extending the arm.....But as one gets more careless and as the hand protection gets bigger, people started throwing the blows with virtually no effect. Dempsey addresses this issue in his book.

The simplest way to address it is to step foward instead of transfering weight from a back leg to the foward leg....walla! body weight comes through loud and clear. This manuveur might well be why fighters to this day tend to square up so much...I mean when fighters were more technically aware they squared up with a false center line. and still transferred weight with smaller movements. Fighters also knew in those days how to fight off the back foot without being obvious about it.

One proof of this that I have noticed, and this is again, an opinion from working with striking in the martial arts, is that when a counterpunch is REALLY a counterpunch....i.e. it hits the puncher before his intended blow is at the target area, one has to have a really well developed sense of distance. What catches the attacking puncher is the change in distance...not necessarily the speed of the counter. One way to do this is to cut the angle so that the punch looks like it will catch you, lean back just an inch so the punch will just graze you, and then as you find a space transfer the weight foward into the counter. By transfering downstairs with the legs, and not moving the head, the puncher does not have any su****ion that you will evade the blow...by controlling distance, you are protected because you are just out of range, then you move past the blow into position.

Just some thoughts!

[BattlingNelson]

Logically, all of the boxing techniques of today had their origins in prehistoric and ancient times. Jabs, straights, hooks, and uppercuts were done by the ancient pankrationists, who also kicked, did takedowns, choked, and made various submission moves now seen in MMA.

Having said this, here are some techniques that have been attributed to modern fighters.

The Corkscrew Punch - Kid McCoy

The Rope a Dope and the Ali Shuffle - Muhammad Ali

The Bolo Punch - Ceferino Garcia

The Shoe Shine - Angelo Dundee/Sugar Ray Leonard

The Dempsey Roll - Jack Dempsey

The Pacquiao Punch - B.J. Penn

I hope you guys can add more. Mayweather's shoulder roll came from George Benton or Charlie Burley but it could have come earlier.

The scissors hook - Battling Nelson.




I Wonder if the inventer of the double left hook can be traced? (Hook to body and then head).

[billeau2]

The scissors hook - Battling Nelson.




I Wonder if the inventer of the double left hook can be traced? (Hook to body and then head).

i would trust Ray on this. IMO it looks like a Mexican technique

[Anthony342]

What's a shoe shine anyway? I remember this being mentioned a lot during Roy Jones fights on HBO where Lederman would say Jones is "doing everything but shoe shining" his opponent in the '90s.

Why wouldn't something called a Pacquiao Punch be attributed to Pacquiao?

[Bald Shavers]

What's a shoe shine anyway? I remember this being mentioned a lot during Roy Jones fights on HBO where Lederman would say Jones is "doing everything but shoe shining" his opponent in the '90s.

Why wouldn't something called a Pacquiao Punch be attributed to Pacquiao?

Shoeshine is when a fighter throws a dazzling 4 punch or more combo to the body then finishes that combo with a punch to the head. With a fighter like Sugar Ray Leonard, the entire 5 punch sequence can last less than 1.5 seconds. If done well, it can easily steal a round with less than 3 seconds left in that round...even if none of the punches land. It looks very dazzling and could impact the judges' perceptions.

The Pacquiao Punch is when Manny would throw a hail mary straight punch (almost with his eyes closed) with his left hand while almost totally off-balance. B.J. Penn thought that this could pay huge dividends in MMA because if those 4 ounce gloves land, it's over. Pacquiao didn't name the punch. B.J. Penn did. Obviously, there are some major risks when throwing this punch.

[Anthony342]

Then why wouldn't Penn called it the BJ Penn punch or the Penn punch for short, as he seems to have made it famous in MMA. Boxing has also been used more in MMA, as fighters in recent years seemed to have been able to use it more effectively. In the past, it wasn't considered because guys thought it left one open to takedowns but after sprawl and brawl became more popular, boxing has found its rightful place in MMA as well. And why not? Its techniques have been proven in their own sport for a long time even since the Queensbury rules came into play.

[Bald Shavers]

Mayweather's shoulder roll came from George Benton or Charlie Burley but it could have come earlier.

Also known as the Philly Shell. James Toney also used it very well. But no one knows its origin. From what I've heard it was probably invented by non-professional boxers in Philadelphia and Detroit who only fought for recreation via sparring in the gym.

Other famous techniques:

The Peek-a-Boo Defense (Cus D'Amato/Floyd Patterson)

The Pull-Counter - possibly Muhammad Ali

The Hanger Punch - possibly Muhammad Ali

[NChristo]

Also known as the Philly Shell. James Toney also used it very well. But no one knows its origin. From what I've heard it was probably invented by non-professional boxers in Philadelphia and Detroit who only fought for recreation via sparring in the gym.

Other famous techniques:

The Peek-a-Boo Defense (Cus D'Amato/Floyd Patterson)

The Pull-Counter - possibly Muhammad Ali

The Hanger Punch - possibly Muhammad Ali

Goes further back then Patterson, Jose Torres maybe ?, unsure.

[The Old LefHook]

Viewing film of pre-middleweight Robinson, I was surprised to see him do the showshine several times. Leonard popularized it, and maybe it was named around him by someone like Gil Clancy while commentating. At any rate, there is film evidence of Robinson shoeshining. He was not doing it to steal a round but going for the KO.