Larry Holmes - Tyson and after

[joseph5620]

Holmes training camp was longer than the training camp Tyson had to prepare for Lewis

Not only is that an unsubstantiated claim but it also has absolutely nothing to do with what I posted. I'm not taking the bait for your obvious agenda against Lennox Lewis. It's old and I have better things to do.

[billeau2]

Much is made of Larry Holmes KO defeat to Mike Tyson back in 1988. But how far had Holmes slipped. What about his achievements after the Tyson loss. Let's take a look.

WBC Champion 1978-85, losses title by clear unanimous decision to Light-Heavy King Michael Spinks 1985. losses rematch by razor thin split decision 1986. Out of ring for 21 months losing by KO4 to Mike Tyson. Out of ring 3yrs then makes comeback, beating 5 journeymen in 1991 then easily defeats Ray Mercer for WBO Title. 4 months later challenges Current Undisputed Heavyweight Champion of the World Evander Holyfield, losing clear decision over 12rds. Wins his next 7 bouts against fairly decent opposition and secures another World Title fight against newly crowned WBC Champion Oliver McCall. losing close fight by decision. Continues fighting, winning his next 9 fights against journeymen and old hasbeen champions, before hanging up his gloves aged 52. Holmes seemed to bare no ill effects health-wise once his boxing days were over. He truly was an incredible fighter, to be able to compete at such a high level for so long and at such an advanced age.
The question is: Holmes only career KO loss to Mike Tyson in 1988 was he "washed-up, damaged goods, a shell of former self etc."...How much did he have left ?.. How did he go on to lose two decisions for the title and win the WBO title against undefeated Ray Mercer?

Holmes career like most, has distinct epoches....Holmes being Holmes and all, could be competative at as an older fighter, and during his twilight perhaps he could bring out some of the performance he had in his prime. He was obviously not in his prime when he fought Tyson. I can't recall off the top of my head what things gave him away....I have not watched this fight in a while....But one big problem he had with Tyson that I do recall (I remember wondering how long he could be evasive) was a classic problem old fighters have. He could not maintain his stamina. In the early part of the fight he wa doing well avoiding Tyson but at a certain point he lost his legs and became very hittable. I doubt the Holmes that fought in his prime would have slowed down.

Holmes did show flashes of his old self and was frustrating Tyson for a while there but I think prime Holmes has more mobility.

There is no way Mike gets credit for beating a fighter who was pretty much a shell of his former glory....any more than Marciano gets credit for beating a prime Joe Louis. IF they had fought when Holmes was prime it would have been interesting....Could Larry keep Tyson off with the jab?

[BattlingNelson]

Holmes career like most, has distinct epoches....Holmes being Holmes and all, could be competative at as an older fighter, and during his twilight perhaps he could bring out some of the performance he had in his prime. He was obviously not in his prime when he fought Tyson. I can't recall off the top of my head what things gave him away....I have not watched this fight in a while....But one big problem he had with Tyson that I do recall (I remember wondering how long he could be evasive) was a classic problem old fighters have. He could not maintain his stamina. In the early part of the fight he wa doing well avoiding Tyson but at a certain point he lost his legs and became very hittable. I doubt the Holmes that fought in his prime would have slowed down.

Holmes did show flashes of his old self and was frustrating Tyson for a while there but I think prime Holmes has more mobility.

There is no way Mike gets credit for beating a fighter who was pretty much a shell of his former glory....any more than Marciano gets credit for beating a prime Joe Louis. IF they had fought when Holmes was prime it would have been interesting....Could Larry keep Tyson off with the jab?

Well Holmes was KD'ed by right hands and arguably a sucker for that punch. Tyson had one of the fastest rights in HW history and Holmes went down as hard as he did against Snipes and Shavers. It had nothing to do with stamina. He was caught by a great shot and Tyson wasn't phazed at all by Holmes unexpected dancing in round 4.

[billeau2]

Well Holmes was KD'ed by right hands and arguably a sucker for that punch. Tyson had one of the fastest rights in HW history and Holmes went down as hard as he did against Snipes and Shavers. It had nothing to do with stamina. He was caught by a great shot and Tyson wasn't phazed at all by Holmes unexpected dancing in round 4.

I think Tyson and Holmes would have been a great fight at any time. You might be right. What I saw was Holmes starting to get caught going back more and on the ropes, hence the assumption his mobility was waining.

[sonnyboyx2]

Well Holmes was KD'ed by right hands and arguably a sucker for that punch. Tyson had one of the fastest rights in HW history and Holmes went down as hard as he did against Snipes and Shavers. It had nothing to do with stamina. He was caught by a great shot and Tyson wasn't phazed at all by Holmes unexpected dancing in round 4.

When interviewed in the ring after the fight, Tyson was asked, "Mike, what did you think when Larry Holmes came out at the start of round 4 throwing out a fast snapping jab"..

Tyson replied, "I just thought to myself, Boy` is he going to get it"..

[Mugwump]

Roids would not help Holmes much in a boxing match, but EPO would help tremendously. going 12rds would be like a stroll in the park for any fighter.

I Thought Lennox just edged his fight with Mercer, but what was surprising was how Mercer beat Lennox to the jab all night long. The fight was also Mercer's first fight in over a year and showed Lennox to be limited skills wise.

Why? What made you think Lennox possessed a quick, accurate jab? In the amateurs, maybe - when he could be bothered. Possibly in his first five professional bouts but from therein he chose mainly to paw at the opposition or repeated 1-2 straight-and-over combinations. I won't knock them because they certainly were effective.