how many heavyweights today are actually heavyweights?

[kiDynamite92]

Your logic is sound. For one thing fighters today do not do roadwork like they once did. Its kind of crazy, when I work with guys in the martial arts I see so many balance and newfangled type routines that are great....But for some reason a heavyweight at a certain weight does not seem able to have the sustained activity that smaller more cut fighters had in the day. There are excptions....Toney always had great punch output and threw at least as many if not more than Rahman during their fight. Forget about fifteen rounds in today's square circle.

It's all this interval training bs nowadays. All this bull**** being said nowadays about how roadwork ineffective and that interval training is all you need blah blah blah blah and then when they get in the ring they just gas out. I mean the real elite fighters fighters have stuck with the old school ways eg Floyd, pacquaio, Hopkins, jones and Wlad can't do road work because he gets shin splints but he does do swimming a lot as a substitute.

[Ray Corso]

Heavyweight division is an "open" class as to limits or qualifying.
You don't need to be "over" cruiser you need to get on a scale and weigh whatever you weigh!!!
The reason for the "oversized" heavies today are their height and methods empoyed.
They stand tall behind their jabs and straight backhand. They grab with "both" hands and clinch without a free hand working.
Thats the style that Wlad and Vitali employ and the other oversized guys have followed suit.
Their like huge Tommy Hearns except Hearns was actually skilled.

Wlad at 240 looks in good shape yet Wilder looked to thin (narrow) at 219!!
The weight is packed on so that even bad punches that don't have accuracy are able to "push" opponents off balance. A method hard punchers like Dempsey, Marciano and Tyson used deliberately. Then ad in the leaning and holding and they can begin to wear their opponents down if the opponent has no recourse.

Weigh advantage can be a huge advantage but without a solid method plan the weight gain can be reversed and wind up being a disadvantage.

Boxing seems very simple these days because theres not much methodology employed anymore.
People the past few days comment on GGG that he gets hit more than he should!!! Really? Well how many pressure, swarmers are actually fighting today at a top five level in a division? Thats right None!
Rigo boxes in an "art form" and some fans don't understand it!!!

It's all subjective but theres always right & wrongs to view and learn from.
I'll take experience and knowledge over size all the time and fare well.


Ray Corso

[LacedUp]

Wilder I think could get down to the cruiserweight limit if he REALLY wanted to.

lol no he couldn't unless he wanted to look like an anorexic.

He doesn't have an ounce of fat on him and he's not muscled up to his weight like Klitschko who started out at a leaner, quicker 220 or Haye (the same) at 195 roughly. They just built on worthless muscle whilst Wilder is all natural.

[joseph5620]

lol no he couldn't unless he wanted to look like an anorexic.

He doesn't have an ounce of fat on him and he's not muscled up to his weight like Klitschko who started out at a leaner, quicker 220 or Haye (the same) at 195 roughly. They just built on worthless muscle whilst Wilder is all natural.

I can't see that happening either. A 6-7 220 pound heavyweight with no fat, should not be fighting under 200 pounds.

[kiDynamite92]

lol no he couldn't unless he wanted to look like an anorexic.

He doesn't have an ounce of fat on him and he's not muscled up to his weight like Klitschko who started out at a leaner, quicker 220 or Haye (the same) at 195 roughly. They just built on worthless muscle whilst Wilder is all natural.

He fought in the cruiserweight division in the amateurs while he was in his late 20's. He could easily get back down there. He could probably dry out most of that weight and drop a bit of muscle up top.

[LacedUp]

He fought in the cruiserweight division in the amateurs while he was in his late 20's. He could easily get back down there. He could probably dry out most of that weight and drop a bit of muscle up top.

Wilder fought in the heavyweight division as an amateur until he was 22 and then turned pro. He's in his late 20s now, there's no way he could make 200 lbs healthy right now.

He doesn't have a muscly physique - there's not much to lose. And it's not like he's carrying excess weight on his legs.

[kiDynamite92]

Wilder fought in the heavyweight division as an amateur until he was 22 and then turned pro. He's in his late 20s now, there's no way he could make 200 lbs healthy right now.

He doesn't have a muscly physique - there's not much to lose. And it's not like he's carrying excess weight on his legs.

Yeah you're right, he was an amateur until he was 22 but at 22 you're basically fully developed and add to the fact that wilder wasn't having any trouble at all making the heavyweight division in the amateurs.

19 pounds isn't much to lose. cruisers could easily rehydrate that much after the weigh in. Like I said most of his weight would be coming off from drying out and the rest from losing a bit of muscle up top. There are boxers taller then wilder in cruisers.

[K-DOGG]

Anybody who carries 200lbs comfortably is a heavyweight.

Those fighters, like Stiverne for example, ARE FAT...they are NOT in the best shape possible.

The idea that heavyweights have evolved into bigger, taller, more athletic men is, for the most part, a Modern Myth.

There have ALWAYS been really big men, like "Big Bill Brennan, Jess Willard, Primo Carnera, Buddy Baer, and too many other unknowns to mention. The difference is then, there were more hungry fighters and there were also a lot of poorly trained fighters where technique was concerned. The ones who rose to the top were usually better trained fighters.

Its also about what's in front of you. If the guy in front of you fights a certain way, at a certain pace, then you want to find a way to beat that fighter. You might be physically capable of performing well beyond what it takes to win; but that wouldn't cross your mind because 9 times out of 10, you're reacting on muscle memory.

Now, back to the size thing. I don't know why modern fighters feel the need for the extra poundage. Perhaps they feel it gives them more strength and stamina.......like they were really listening to George Foreman during his surrealistic comeback, cause that's the kind of reasoning he used for weighing 253 lbs instead of working his body back down to 235 or less; but he was also over 40 years old and a power puncher. Speed never was his thing, so it worked for him, as it kind of worked for Holmes on his comeback....slower pace, experience, and sub-par opposition.

While both greats did well on their comebacks, people often forget they only had two notable wins between them.....Michael Moored for George and Ray Mercer for Larry.

Still, that's the only reason I can find for most heavyweights being too heavy. Being closer togood fighting weight (which would nhe proportional to height) would increase their activity level/ punch-output, maneuverability, speed, reflexes, in other words, their overall performance.

Somewhere somebody dropped the lie that being a heavyweight is ALL about Power. Well, it's not. Power may be the window dressing with the big boys; but excitement puts butts in the seats and skill gets you remembered....not watching two whales stare at each other ominously waiting to throw and land that big punch while watching and waiting for the other guy to do the same. Who wants to watch that shyte?

[them_apples]

It's quite easy for a middleweight to be 40 pounds above their fight weight when they're not training for a fight. For 1 they would easily hydrate 10-20 pounds after the weight in. That would make them a cruiser already. Add in the crap they would eat out of camp and there's your other 20 lbs.

Yeah sorry I read your post wrong. I remember back in the day the champs stayed in shape instead of hattoning up in between. Duran did this and he had an up and down career. I think modern conditioning is indeed bull****. Boxing has years of experience under its belt unlike newer sports that have evolved. Remember some Olympic records still stand from the 60's if you could measure boxing id say its competitive all the way from the 50s until now based on different variables. Once you go back as far as Dempsey though its kind of hard seeing how he could **** with a frazier or Ali.

Ggg is getting all this hype but I can think of plenty pf fighters who weren't even champs that would beat him. His competition just folds and allows him to do his thing

[f15bone]

I think you guys might be making things more complicated than they really are...

Boxing is no different than other sports or entertainment for that matter...

Success gets copied simple as that...Whether it's the triangle offense in basketball, the "spread" in football, or fake beasts on MTV...

Trust & believe, anybody who has been successful will find the next person trying to emulate that success using similar, if not mirrored tactics & methods...

Tyson had a thousand imitators, as did Ali & Leonard ect...ect...