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Theres been lots of threads about if fighters from the past could compete with todays heavyweights and to be honest im still undecided so what are the best examples of cruiserweights or naturally small heavyweights where the size of the fighters dint matter against a much heavier fighter, where speed, skill or punching power was enough to ko the bigger guy, making his size a non factor. Is 200 pounds really the cut off limit for a fighter to compete against much heavier fighters? I know furys not the best out there and hasn't the best chin but hes still a very large heavyweight that can box pretty well and has taken shots off much larger heavies and it took a small fast cruiser steve Cunningham to knock him down. Joe Louis looked a lot more nimble against his fight with Primo Carnera. Anyone know any better examples?
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I think it just depends on the fighters skill and talent and not so much correlation to size..
Some guys are big and very skillful ie lennox, wlad, vitali, riddick
Some are just big like valuev, fury, primo
Some are just medium sized and very skillful or big punchers like tyson, Holmes, ali frazier
Some would be undersized, cruiser types that have great skill and big punchers ie Louis, Marciano, byrd, ezzard
I think size does matter to a certain extent, but skill is the more important factor.. The bigger the disparity in size the smaller guy must have a greater skill margin or at least a huge punch..
That's what makes lennox, Wlad, vitali, and to a certain extent riddick and foreman so tough to beat because they can match nearly anyone in ring skills/smarts and have huge size.. -
All I'll say on this now is if Jack Dempsey at 6''0 and 185lbs can stop Jess Willard at 6''6 and 245, thats proof that he other great punchers like Marciano, Louis and Frazier would have a punchers chance vs Wlad and the other super heavies.
Once you get over the 170-180 mark a man in shape who can punch has the capability to take out ANYONE.Comment
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I agree with this one, the right skill set is the key. It doesn't matter if the opponent has larger frame as long as you hit him at the right spot at the right time. Timing is one of the key factors for smaller fighters to succeed against larger fighters.Originally posted by Sugar Adam Ali View PostComment
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it was a different game 100 years ago, there were 45 round fights with 5 ounce gloves. those real big heavies just wearnt good under those rules just like I wouldn't expect the heavies of today to be either.Comment
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Originally posted by kiDynamite92 View Post
But that doesnt change the fact that it is physically possible for a true puncher at 180-200 to level a big man weighing 240+. Thats a fact that many try and dispute on here.
I wouldn't bet money on Dempsey over Klitschko, but I would not rule out his punchers chance, not by a long shot. Dempsey, Marciano and Louis brought a ferocity to the table that NO ONE brings today at HW. They punched with bad intentions and their one goal was to knock you the fck out. No one brings that today at HW, absolutely no one.Comment
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I mean we just saw 210lb Cunningham, not a puncher, drop 6''9 250lb Fury like a sack of ****. So is it really unimaginable that histories greatest punchers weighing a little less could do the same to Wlad, a man who has been stopped 3x before?Comment
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People also tend to forget that the heavyweight division is an "open" division. Contrary to what the modernists assert there were times, including after the second world war, where people were getting better nutrition and hence, more size. There just has never been a reason to make a super heavy division in the sport because there has never been a correlation between size and superiority.
What the numbers seem to tell us is that there are advantages and disadvantages and size can be either or.... A man like jess willard was incredibly strong at 242 pounds, a man like Valuev was probably weaker for his size and has coordination issues and even strength issues (he may have gigantism).
There is no trend that suggests size is a developing trait that determines effectiveness in boxing.Comment
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absolutely. In my opinion the best heavyweights under the current rules of boxing (12 rounds, 10 ounce gloves) would weigh around 215-225. That's how much Lewis, Tyson, Bowe, Holmes were during their best years. Wlad was also around that weight in his younger days, too me he was better then but just wasn't as dominant with the better opposition. I don't know how good the likes of Louis and Dempsey would be now but I do know that they would be bigger with the reduced rounds but I wouldn't be sure about their power since they have gloves that are 2x as heavy as they were in their time.Originally posted by One more round View PostComment
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