top 10 welterweights of all time

[JAB5239]

i'm assuming you have a list of welterweights from the 19th century that are all better than Duran then?

I posted my list off the top of my head, go find it. And what does the time frame a fighter fought in have to do with anything? I rank fighters based on facts and accomplishments, not ASSumptions.

Saying Oscar and Tito don't belong there is just pure Bias.

In your eyes, maybe. But just sticking them in there while dismissing fighters who fought in era's gone by is just plain stupid.Then again, if you don't do the research you can never know the difference.

[StarshipTrooper]

In your eyes, maybe. But just sticking them in there while dismissing fighters who fought in era's gone by is just plain stupid.Then again, if you don't do the research you can never know the difference.

them_apples thinks any fighter who fought before 1980 automatically sucks. He also blows off any opinion given by a boxing historian because those OLD peeps don't know what they're talking about.

Poet

[JAB5239]

them_apples thinks any fighter who fought before 1980 automatically sucks. He also blows off any opinion given by a boxing historian because those OLD peeps don't know what they're talking about.

Poet

Yeah, I know. Dude just doesn't know how to be objective. Thats fine though. Just makes it that much easier to tear down any argument he presents.

[slicksouthpaw16]

1. Ray Robinson
2. Kid Galivan
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Ray Leonard
5. Jose Napoles
6. Joe Walcott
7. Barney Ross
8. Carmon Basilio
9. Thomas Hearns
10. Felix Trinidad

Honorable mentions to Fritizi Zivic( who is from my hometown) Charlie Burley( who is also from my hometown) Ted Lewis, Micky Walker and Wilfred Benitez.

[them_apples]

them_apples thinks any fighter who fought before 1980 automatically sucks. He also blows off any opinion given by a boxing historian because those OLD peeps don't know what they're talking about.

Poet

lol fool, you say I dismiss all fighters before the 1980's yet my argument was for Duran! Dumbass

[them_apples]

Yeah, I know. Dude just doesn't know how to be objective. Thats fine though. Just makes it that much easier to tear down any argument he presents.

Hey Jab, if you want to argue with me thats fine, but siding with Poet, the biggest troll on these forums..is stooping rather low. Go look up some of his posts..all the guy does is trash talk.


What I said about Duran, he may not be as great as some welterweights..but he did beat Leonard the first time..that is saying something. I do get rather pissed when very, very old boxers are thrown on these lists because boxing during Jack Johnsons time was very undeveloped, strength training consisted of smoking and drinking rum. fighting was usually clashing heads for 20+ rounds extremely tired..usually hyped up by calling it insane stamina..but if you throw 6 weak ass punches for 20+ rounds I guess it wouldn't be so hard. Thats why I'd pick a fighter like Leonard or even Oscar to woop those old school bums that get overrated because they have had 200 fights.

I'm talking OLDSCHOOL..as in Jack Johnson..don't get mislead by Poet's fabrication.

[JAB5239]

Hey Jab, if you want to argue with me thats fine, but siding with Poet, the biggest troll on these forums..is stooping rather low. Go look up some of his posts..all the guy does is trash talk.

Look, you're probably a good guy. You and I just don't see eye to eye on boxing. It seems that, in my opinion whether we post with each other or not, our opinions are contrasting most of the time. It is what it is. what it isn't is personal. Ok?

As far as Poet goes.....he's been nothing but a gentleman to me, and I often agree and respect his boxing opinions. That in no way effects my opinion of others though. If you and him don't get along, thats your buisness. It has nothing to do with when I debate you or when I debate him. I can't say its never happened, but I try not to just side with somebody to piss somebody else off. If nothing else, I try to be my own man.

What I said about Duran, he may not be as great as some welterweights..but he did beat Leonard the first time..that is saying something.

This acheivement was huge and you will never hear me say otherwise. But it doesn't put him into the 10 best welters of all time. There are guys at that weight that did so much more there, for a longer amount of time. Duran beating Leonard was incredible. Its just not incredible enough for me to dismiss a lot of other great fighters from the list in order to make room for Roberto.

I do get rather pissed when very, very old boxers are thrown on these lists because boxing during Jack Johnsons time was very undeveloped, strength training consisted of smoking and drinking rum. fighting was usually clashing heads for 20+ rounds extremely tired..usually hyped up by calling it insane stamina..but if you throw 6 weak ass punches for 20+ rounds I guess it wouldn't be so hard. Thats why I'd pick a fighter like Leonard or even Oscar to woop those old school bums that get overrated because they have had 200 fights.

I'm talking OLDSCHOOL..as in Jack Johnson..don't get mislead by Poet's fabrication.

This is where you and I disagree most. While fighters of the time did drink and smoke, they also ran 15 and sometimes 20 miles a day. The also chopped wood, carried logs and other such vigorous exercises. You say the were "insanely" tired after a 20 round fight throwing few punches, yet I can give you examples of fighters going to war. Greb vs Walker was a 15 round fight that is a perfect example among many others. You also seem to miss the point that these guys were doing their fighting with 2 to 4oz gloves. Most had to fight on with injuries or risk not getting paid.

No matter what though, you have to distinguish the differences in era's. Back in the 50's there were like 12,000 pro fighters with 8 weight classes and 1 belt per. Today there are like 3,000 fighters with 17 weight classes and 4 titles per.

Back in the day they had same day weigh ins. Today fighters weigh in almost a full 48 hrs before the fight and get to replenish their systems.

Back then medical science wasn't close to what it is today, yet fighters HAD to fight injured to put food on the table. Not so today.

And honestly, can you tell me that heavyweights today really throw more punches on average and are as exciting as years past? I would bet any thing that if you took the big boys of today and put them on grainy black and white film, managed to get the same film speed, you wou be equally as unimpressed. Jmo. Peace.

[1SILVA]

top 10 welterweights of all time

10 greatest welterweights of all time
1. Ray Robinson
2. Ray Leonard
3. Kid Gavilan
4. Carmen Basilio
5. Felix Trinidad
6. Thomas Hearns
7. Jose Napoles
8. Donald Curry
9. Henry Armstrong
10. Emile Griffith