Is Dempsey still a top 10 ATG Heavyweight in 2014?

[Joeyzagz]

50 years ago(1964) my list would look like this:

1. Joe Louis
2. Rocky Marciano
3. Jack Johnson
4. Jack Dempsey
5. Jim Jeffries
6. Sonny Liston
7. John L sullivan
8. Ezzard charles
9. Jim Corbett
10. Floyd Patterson

50 years later I think only the first couple names have stood the test of time. Louis's 25 defenses and Marciano's perfect record will probably keep them on the list until the year 2064! Jack Dempsey doesnt have any standout achievements that warrant a high ranking. His failure to defend against black opponents is actually the most standout thing about him.

[BKM-2010]

Yes, he's just more 'replaceable' than he was before. The last heavyweight to become a top 10 ATG hw was ten years ago when Lewis retired, and I don't see either Klitschko making it in there, and there doesn't seem to be any others on the horizon with that kind of potential. So the top 10 is not that crowded yet.

[bklynboy]

Yes, he's just more 'replaceable' than he was before. The last heavyweight to become a top 10 ATG hw was ten years ago when Lewis retired, and I don't see either Klitschko making it in there, and there doesn't seem to be any others on the horizon with that kind of potential. So the top 10 is not that crowded yet.

I have a hard time comparing fighters of different eras and would love to hear how others do it.

How does one compare modern fighters with those before 1920? Boxing was not legal pre 1920; there were no decision wins (yes newspaper wins); draws/no contests were commonplace; gloves were much lighter (if anyone knows a source that explains what gloves people used from 1890s to 1920 I would love to read it); and what was allowed in the ring (neutral corner, allowing hurt fighters to keep on, "dirty" fighting) was much different. And let's not forget that there is very little film available for us to evaluate.

So that being said how do we compare fighters? We can use comparisons by people around back then. Blackburn rated Jack Johnson to be better than Joe Louis until the Joe Louis of Schmelling II. But how do we rate John L Sullivan or Jim Corbett? Their sport was much, much different than what we have now.

It's like rating Harry Greb v Carlos Monson or Marvin Hagler or Bernard Hopkins.

[BKM-2010]

^We don't. Historians don't rank on the basis of comparisons between era's, what we do is look at each fighter's impact and accomplishments in his own era and also at the quality of that particular era.

[bklynboy]

Yes, he's just more 'replaceable' than he was before. The last heavyweight to become a top 10 ATG hw was ten years ago when Lewis retired, and I don't see either Klitschko making it in there, and there doesn't seem to be any others on the horizon with that kind of potential. So the top 10 is not that crowded yet.

Well since 1964 we can add

Muhammad Ali
Larry Holmes
Lennox Lewis
George Foreman
Evander Holyfield
Mike Tyson
Joe Frazier

as definite or potential TOP 10s

WK - let's wait until his career is over.

Tyson and Frazier are in my 11-20 list but the other 5 make it to the TOP 10 pushing off Charles and Patterson for sure and probably Dempsey. His reign was not good enough to remain.

Corbett and Sullivan - as said in the earlier post were from a much different era. How do we evaluate Corbett v Tyson or Holyfield?

[bklynboy]

^We don't. Historians don't rank on the basis of comparisons between era's, what we do is look at each fighter's impact and accomplishments in his own era and also at the quality of that particular era.

Yeah. Boxing as a sport has changed over time (obviously). But the break between 1920 (or so) with the Walker law legalizing boxing; the acceptance of 15 round fights; judges, neutral corner, etc... changed the sport in way we haven't seen since.

[LacedUp]

I wouldn't necessarily rank Dempsey in the top 10. He was clearly great for his time, but overall quality on his resume is not top 10 material in my opinion.

[joemama]

I think he is still top 10. Something to be said for being undisputed champion all those years.

[SouthPawHitman]

Yes...no doubt Jack is top 10. This is my top 10.

1-Ali
2-Louis
3-Foreman
4-Rocky
5-Dempsey
6-Jack Johnson
7-Smokin Joe
8-Lennox
9-Holyfield
10-Larry Holmes

If Wlad can beat Fury,Wilder,Bermane,and Pulev I would rank him in the top 10.

[Joeyzagz]

Well since 1964 we can add

Muhammad Ali
Larry Holmes
Lennox Lewis
George Foreman
Evander Holyfield
Mike Tyson
Joe Frazier

as definite or potential TOP 10s

WK - let's wait until his career is over.

Tyson and Frazier are in my 11-20 list but the other 5 make it to the TOP 10 pushing off Charles and Patterson for sure and probably Dempsey. His reign was not good enough to remain.

Corbett and Sullivan - as said in the earlier post were from a much different era. How do we evaluate Corbett v Tyson or Holyfield?

Wladimir Klitschko has remained unbeaten for 10 years now, and is creeping on Larry Holmes, and Joe Louis's title defense record. My question is what did Dempsey accomplish in the 20s that could put him over Wlad at this point?

Dempsey lost against Tunney, and for various reasons never faced Wills, Langford, Greb, or Johnson. I personally like Dempsey better, I think hes more exciting, but Im hard pressed to say he dominated the 1920s the way Wlad has dominated the 2010s.