Muhammad Ali was not a great fighter

[RockyMarcianofan00]

1950 EATMAN 15-19-3
1951 MITCHELL 3-11-3
1951 HENRI 13-15-1
1951 APPLEGATE 10-14-2 (WENT THE DISTANCE!)

That's 4 fights after 1948 when he fought fighters with losing records.

How dare you challenge me with your lack of research.

wow in 49 fights 9ppl didn't have good records

thats what i think roughly 18% of his fights?

and thats 8 fights before he got his belt

so what are you trying to prove there was better fighters in the 70's? yea we know that

just because Ali had one fight with a negative record doesn't really prove anything because if Rocky had fought in the 60's and 70's in his prime maybe he'd have less ko's but he'd still for the most part be undefeated he may have one or 2 losses but then again maybe not because there are few ppl that could beat marciano IMO

some ppl that may have beaten Marciano or maybe would have given him a run for his money at the very least

Foreman
Tyson
Ali
Frazier
Holmes

maybe Shavers, maybe norton

now 5 or 6 fought in the 70's so really thats not to bad

[The Noose]

That article may have been intended as a joke, but ive read plently of opinons that are just as messed up.

[smasher]

[QUOTE=RockyMarcianofan00]

wow in 49 fights 9ppl didn't have good records

No, not just 9 people that didn't have good records. There were plenty more, they just didn't have winless or losing records.2-1,3-2,8-5,7-6,9-6,18-7,15-8,12-6,23-12,10-9,57-48-9,18-10,29-18,60-56-10,8-8-1 etc....

Let's see now one fighter at .500, 3 with 1 win over .500, Lowry who has won only half his fights fights then rematched when he had won less than half his fights, one guy with 3 fights, one guy with 5 fights etc...the list goes on and on....MANY OF MARCIANO'S OPPONENTS HAD POOR RECORDS

Marciano was a pro for 8 years and champion for 3. His last title fight came a month after turning 32 years of age. With Marciano's poor competition and early retirement there would be several former champions that would have been retired at 49-0.

[Yogi]

Based simply on their respective Win/Loss records;

Lamar Clark > Joe Frazier

[RockyMarcianofan00]

you make his comptetition sound like they were amateur fighters alright we all know he didn't have the greatest Competition but he did have good fights, Carmine vingo,Roland Lastarza,Jersey Joe walcott etc

you can downplay him as much as you want but whether he had bad opposition or not he's probably in most ppl's top 5

the most common ranked above him are usually, Joe Louis,Ali,Frazier,Foreman, and if you rank rocky 6 sometimes they throw another fighter they like in there, point is he was a good fighter and would beat almost any hw, only a handful would have a good chance at beating him and another handful would give him trouble

thats not nuthugging thats just paying attnetion

[smasher]

I don't see how only three stoppage losses to good hitters like Payne, Matthews and especially Murray (who was thought of as one of the very hardest punchers of his day) in nearly 150 fights indicates someone who doesn't have a good chin...

Is it a black mark against Marciano because he couldn't knock out a "tough, ringwise heavyweight"

I did not say he did not have a good chin, I said he did not have a granite chin. Lowry could be floored which he was. Lowry could be KO'd which he was.

Calling a guy tough and ringwise is pretty much a generic statement for anyone who has engaged in over 100 pro fights. Lowry had only won half of his fights in the first Marciano fight and less than half for the rematch. How about calling him "an often beaten light-heavyweight journeyman" which is what he really was.

Even calling Lowry a heavyweight is a stretch. Lowry weighed 177 against Marciano. Most of his fights were fought at or near the light-heavyweight limit and several of his earlier fights were fought at or slightly above the middleweight limit.

Using Marciano's injury as an excuse for the first fight might have some merit to it if he KO'd Lowry in the rematch. He didn't.

[Heckler]

you make his comptetition sound like they were amateur fighters alright we all know he didn't have the greatest Competition but he did have good fights, Carmine vingo,Roland Lastarza,Jersey Joe walcott etc

you can downplay him as much as you want but whether he had bad opposition or not he's probably in most ppl's top 5

the most common ranked above him are usually, Joe Louis,Ali,Frazier,Foreman, and if you rank rocky 6 sometimes they throw another fighter they like in there, point is he was a good fighter and would beat almost any hw, only a handful would have a good chance at beating him and another handful would give him trouble

thats not nuthugging thats just paying attnetion

Larry Holmes, Frazier, Ali, Louis, Foreman, Dempsey, Tyson (maybe) - all fighters that have a good chance of dealing to Rocky Marciano, although Tyson might be pushing it. So your right, irrespective of his opposition... not many could beat him.

[Heckler]

very true so its not like all his opponents were superhumans

but what i meant by face i ali fought bums was that he did fight bums thats not to say all his oppoenets were bums but some of the fighters he fought were bums

Whats this obsession, everyone fights bums... yet people rarely take into account the fact that the fighters they are trying to discredit fought the BEST THERE WERE, and Marciano and Ali definately did this.

[Frazier's 15th round]

As far as me being a ****ing moron and thinking the article was serious, I've already stated that I was well aware of the joke. I, in fact, posted in Montrose's "Muhammad Ali was not a great fighter" thread AT EAST SIDE BOXING when the article was still around (before the site crashed). I know the whole situation with Revolver, who might be an even bigger Ali nuthugger than Butterfly, Hellfire, or Heckler. Revolver put Ali at 1, Holmes at 2, Foreman 3, Liston 4, Tyson 5, Frazier 6, and he had a whole slew of Ali opponents in his top 20, like Folley and Terrell. Guys like Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano were nowhere to be found.

The article that Montrose wrote had me laughing my ass off, so I stored it in a safe place. I figured, since the "Why do you all hate on Muhammad Ali" thread was bumped, and about 8 more Ali threads were on the same page, it was a good time to post the article and get Ali's huggers riled up.

[RockyMarcianofan00]

i know some people don't put Marciano on there top 10 and i don't think its right but i deal with it but if you don't put Joe Louis at least in your top 3, or even at the very least top 5 then there's really something wrong