Who hits harder: Golovkin or Mugabe?

[IronDanHamza]

So if I had a measured punch that is harder than the measured punch of a bona fide hard hitter, lets say Julian Jackson, and I knocked out my first 20 opponents inside a couple of rounds and then fought 5 more opponents and was knocked out by all of them quickly then I could not be considered to be one of the hardest punchers in history because I never stopped anyone that was considered to have a solid chin?

Well if you measured your punch then you've got some pretty solid evidence for your punching power so the conclusion is right there for you.

Are you leading me somewhere here? Did Valero measure his punching power?

Maybe Broner didn't land right against De Leon? Knocking someone out is not just a case of the force of the punch but also the skill to land it correctly. Bums get knocked out not primarily because they have poor chins but because they have poor defences and poor capacity to anticipate punches and therefore get caught flush, get caught with punches that rotate their heads often resulting in concussions. I never said Broner was definitely one of the hardest punchers ever at 130, only that there was strong evidence that he was a big puncher at that weight.

Broner landed some very hard solid punches against De Leon and didn't visibly hurt him once. This is one of the hardest punchers ever at 130 lbs and he can't even hurt a guy who get's knocked out by the majority of guys he faces who he can punch hard. Juan Ma knocked him out in less than 3 rounds on two sepearate occasions yet this monster puncher can't even hurt him despite landing some solid clean hard shots throughout?

I'd love to know who you actually think were big punchers.

Hmmm, top of my head I consider Tommy Hearns a very hard puncher, Ray Robinson, erm, George Foreman, Bob Foster, there's quite a few.

[Humean]

Well if you measured your punch then you've got some pretty solid evidence for your punching power so the conclusion is right there for you.

Are you leading me somewhere here? Did Valero measure his punching power?

If Valero did then i'm not aware of it. I'm leading you to the conclusion that you also do not believe what you said when you argued months back about Valero's punching power. You said then and you are implying it again here that the sole evidence for being a big puncher is knocking out someone with a solid/good/great chin. However here you are admitting that there actually is other evidence that is relevant.

Broner landed some very hard solid punches against De Leon and didn't visibly hurt him once. This is one of the hardest punchers ever at 130 lbs and he can't even hurt a guy who get's knocked out by the majority of guys he faces who he can punch hard. Juan Ma knocked him out in less than 3 rounds on two sepearate occasions yet this monster puncher can't even hurt him despite landing some solid clean hard shots throughout?

But did he land the solid clean punches in the manner that would knock DeLeon out? Not seeing the punch is about as relevant as the force. That is why Stevens landed on the canvas by Golovkin in one punch but not by the other 200 plus punches that Golovkin landed.

Hmmm, top of my head I consider Tommy Hearns a very hard puncher, Ray Robinson, erm, George Foreman, Bob Foster, there's quite a few.

All definite big punchers but also high quality fighters. Can you be one of the biggest punchers ever at your weight and not be an especially great fighter?

[IronDanHamza]

If Valero did then i'm not aware of it. I'm leading you to the conclusion that you also do not believe what you said when you argued months back about Valero's punching power. You said then and you are implying it again here that the sole evidence for being a big puncher is knocking out someone with a solid/good/great chin. However here you are admitting that there actually is other evidence that is relevant.

I said that's the sole evidence? Or are you saying that that is what I'm saying?

Guide me to that post where I said that that is the sole evidence to determine a hard puncher.

Also guide me to a post where I said that scientifically measuring the force of a punch isn't a way of determining someone's punching power.

But did he land the solid clean punches in the manner that would knock DeLeon out? Not seeing the punch is about as relevant as the force. That is why Stevens landed on the canvas by Golovkin in one punch but not by the other 200 plus punches that Golovkin landed.

In Round 5 alone yes most definitely he did. If Broner was one of the hardest punchers of all time at 130 lbs then I think one of those punches would have atleast rocked Ponce De Leon.

All definite big punchers but also high quality fighters. Can you be one of the biggest punchers ever at your weight and not be an especially great fighter?

Of course.

[Humean]

I said that's the sole evidence? Or are you saying that that is what I'm saying?

Guide me to that post where I said that that is the sole evidence to determine a hard puncher.

Also guide me to a post where I said that scientifically measuring the force of a punch isn't a way of determining someone's punching power.

That was what you were saying in that Valero argument. That you had to knock someone out with a solid/good/great chin to be considered a big puncher. I listed other evidence for it and you basically said that it was all ridiculous, indeed that I was actually ****** for thinking so, that the only important evidence was whether a fighter had knocked out someone with a solid/good/great chin and if he hadn't, such as Valero, then therefore he was not a big puncher.

In Round 5 alone yes most definitely he did. If Broner was one of the hardest punchers of all time at 130 lbs then I think one of those punches would have atleast rocked Ponce De Leon.

I'll check the film later.

Of course.

Then surely a big puncher who wasn't a great fighter is likely to have a far more limited opportunity to prove it to your satisfaction?

[IronDanHamza]

That was what you were saying in that Valero argument. That you had to knock someone out with a solid/good/great chin to be considered a big puncher. I listed other evidence for it and you basically said that it was all ridiculous, indeed that I was actually ****** for thinking so, that the only important evidence was whether a fighter had knocked out someone with a solid/good/great chin and if he hadn't, such as Valero, then therefore he was not a big puncher.

I said there was no other possible evidence?

Did I say that measuring the force of a punch isn't evidence? Because that's obviously a very uncommon occurrence so it's not something I'm going to be even contemplating in our discussion. Measuring the force of a punch is literally measuring someone's power. But how often does that happen? Basically never.

"Evidence" you were using were things along the lines of;

"Valero is one of the hardest punchers ever because he knocked out his first 20 opponents that's something no one had done a that point"

or

"Valero knocked out guys who were ranked by a sanctioning body so they were world class fighters"



The "evidence" you were providing was ******. I don't recall specifically exactly what it was but things such as above.

I'm quite sure you didn't once use scientifically measuring the force of a punch as possible evidence but it's nice that one has come to you down the line.

Then surely a big puncher who wasn't a great fighter is likely to have a far more limited opportunity to prove it to your satisfaction?

More likely than not they will land a hard punch and it will show.

Someone like Earnie Shavers for example.

[Scott9945]

If I had to list the two most overrated fighters in my lifetime, it would be Zab Judah and John Mugabi. Did Mugabi ever KO anyone better than Curtis Parker? Golovkin is unproven at the top level too. Hopefully he won't be as disappointing as Mugabi was.

[IronDanHamza]

If I had to list the two most overrated fighters in my lifetime, it would be Zab Judah and John Mugabi. Did Mugabi ever KO anyone better than Curtis Parker? Golovkin is unproven at the top level too. Hopefully he won't be as disappointing as Mugabi was.

I'm with you on that one, always felt that way.

Obviously he can punch but I always thought his power was overrated.

He has a high KO ratio though and knocked out a lot of bums so I'm guessing he's right up there with Edwin Valero and Adrien Broner

[Humean]

I said there was no other possible evidence?

Did I say that measuring the force of a punch isn't evidence? Because that's obviously a very uncommon occurrence so it's not something I'm going to be even contemplating in our discussion. Measuring the force of a punch is literally measuring someone's power. But how often does that happen? Basically never.

"Evidence" you were using were things along the lines of;

"Valero is one of the hardest punchers ever because he knocked out his first 20 opponents that's something no one had done a that point"

or

"Valero knocked out guys who were ranked by a sanctioning body so they were world class fighters"



The "evidence" you were providing was ******. I don't recall specifically exactly what it was but things such as above.

I'm quite sure you didn't once use scientifically measuring the force of a punch as possible evidence but it's nice that one has come to you down the line.

No you didn't say that measuring the force of the punch wasn't evidence but it was implied logically when you said that the only relevant evidence was knocking out someone with a great chin.

I had said that he was the first man to knock out his first 18 opponents in the first round, I didn't say that that alone meant he was one of the hardest punchers of all time at 130-135 but that it was evidence for that view. I have no idea how that cannot be evidence to you. The second paraphrase is not correct, that was a response to your claim that Valero had never knocked out a 'ranked' opponent.

The other evidence was testimony of fighters who had ever fought him or sparred him.

There is nothing ****** about this, what is ****** is thinking that the only thing relevant is whether a fighter knocked out someone you deem to have had a great chin. That you cannot see how ****** that is, even after all these months is astonishing.

Of course I didn't use the measuring of force as evidence at the time, because it wasn't relevant to Valero because as far as I'm aware he never had the force of his punches measured.

More likely than not they will land a hard punch and it will show.

Someone like Earnie Shavers for example.

Not always, a mediocre contender could conceivably never get an opportunity to land one clean punch on someone with a quality chin.

[IronDanHamza]

No you didn't say that measuring the force of the punch wasn't evidence but it was implied logically when you said that the only relevant evidence was knocking out someone with a great chin.

Ok so I didn't say that. Thank you for clearing that up.

"Implied" is your favourite word You love telling people what they're implying.

Like I said, that's such a uncommon occurrence that didn't even enter my mind.

Obviously if I said that's the only way, then I meant in the ring.

I had said that he was the first man to knock out his first 18 opponents in the first round, I didn't say that that alone meant he was one of the hardest punchers of all time at 130-135 but that it was evidence for that view. I have no idea how that cannot be evidence to you.

Well that's the same evidence that can be used for Ali Raymi except he's done it 20 times so far. I guess he's up there with Valero and Broner aswell

The second paraphrase is not correct, that was a response to your claim that Valero had never knocked out a 'ranked' opponent.

No I definitely didn't say that about Valero because I know he's beaten atleast one ranked fighter in Demarco.

There is nothing ****** about this, what is ****** is thinking that the only thing relevant is whether a fighter knocked out someone you deem to have had a great chin. That you cannot see how ****** that is, even after all these months is astonishing.

Deem to have a great chin? You're slowly but surely becoming the king of changing others views.

I also never said that's the only way of determining a fighter can punch. I said it's the best way.

Of course I didn't use the measuring of force as evidence at the time, because it wasn't relevant to Valero because as far as I'm aware he never had the force of his punches measured.

Right

Not always, a mediocre contender could conceivably never get an opportunity to land one clean punch on someone with a quality chin.

More than likely they will land a hard punch or a few.

[DeepSleep]

As an engineering PhD student I always get infuriated when I see "scientists"(usually a bunch of donkeys with zero actual physics or mechanics background) measure "punching power".

Measuring force to determine how hard someone punches is a useless stat that is often parroted by fans/media ho have little to know physics background. Force is simply a measure of pressure (when you step on a scale it is measuring force) but anyone who boxes knows that it is important to snap your punches. Simply pushing punches and throwing giant arm punches will register a large "force" measurement but will yield little actual real world punching power. The missing component is the term that you often hear in boxing: Snap.

When you learn to punch you learn to snap your punches to deliver the force of your punch instantaneously and quickly instead of simply pushing or pawing. You must deliver the largest amount of force in the shortest amount of time to successfully deliver a powerful punch. If you have ever boxed and hit a heavy bag for awhile and noticed that your punches will snap and cause a crack on the bag like a whip while new boxers will push the bag causing a thud as opposed to a loud ****.

If you want to read a more detailed explanation try this link:
http://shootafairone.wordpress.com/2...sweet-science/.

Sorry to go off topic I just hate when people misuse basic science(in particular physics) especially when it's on a major media outlet(looking at you ESPN Sports Science).