Fight parallel: Calzighe versus Lacy Cotto versus Martinez

[billeau2]

The difference to me is that I believe that the 2010 version of Sergio would have beaten the 2014 Cotto. In retrospect I wouldn't pick any version of Lacy to ever beat Joe C. The class difference in the two matchups just isn't the same.

There is no problem with this because you expressed it as a "belief." I "believed" that Mayorga was going to do great things....And he had actually beat a great fighter.

The difference imo is how we argue our beliefs because these beliefs can turn to hyperbole and hype in a hurry. If someone said Martinez being bigger and having faster feet may have given Cotto problems...well I thought this was a possability...But when people held Martinez up as a man who had fought similar comp, a pound for pound contestant....thats when I like to bring up the Lacy situation because it forces people to look carefully at the hyping.

The Casino usually wins because at the end of the day their odds are usually based on rationale evidential pieces of information. Which is why Martinez was not a 5 to 1 favorite, that and his knee situation.

[IronDanHamza]

lacy beat Robin Reid!

That's a joke I'm assuming?

Again, Lacy doesn't have a single impressive win.

Seriously you may well consider this a sterling record that puts Martinez way above Lacy....guess what? the boxing pundits (at the time) did not. Lacy was picked to beat Joe and put up as a star in the making....that is a fact. So is it me who is hyping Lacy? Not really.

I don't consider it a "sterling" record but it's levels and levels better than Lacy's.

Lacy was a slight favourite over Calzaghe for who knows what reason. And what does that have to do with it anyway? We're comparing Jeff Lacy to Sergio Martinez and there is absolutely no comparison between them.

I consider myself a g***** really just here to remind people when things are so quickly forgotten. And while I cannot guage it I am fairly confident that about the time Lacy went to that fight with Calzighe he was being hyped as much as Martinez was when fighting Cotto. In both cases people should have known that the level of skill and proof of skill was on a different level, Cotto and Calzighe were in a class above.

Ok but again, Lacy and Martinez are two completely different levels of fighter.

[billeau2]

That's a joke I'm assuming?

Again, Lacy doesn't have a single impressive win.



I don't consider it a "sterling" record but it's levels and levels better than Lacy's.

Lacy was a slight favourite over Calzaghe for who knows what reason. And what does that have to do with it anyway? We're comparing Jeff Lacy to Sergio Martinez and there is absolutely no comparison between them.



Ok but again, Lacy and Martinez are two completely different levels of fighter.

We just disagree, if you read my responses virtually all the questions you posed have been answered...numerous times I may add. Yes the Reid comment was a joke.

You can't get past the literal comparison between Lacy and Martinez... What you fail to realize is there are many ways to compare them, all of them painfully deconstructed at this point.

[BennyST]

Serg wasn't a hype job... He beat a lot of quality fighters, lacy never beat one..

He got screwed in the cintron fight twice, should have won by ko and decision, and there is a string case he beat Williams the first time, prior to cotto, serg could have been at 53-1-1 with 2 lineal reigns at 2 different divisions..

At his peak he was one of the hardest outs in boxing, he isn't an atg but he had a hof caliber career, and has been the best mw champ since Hopkins

He was an excellent fighter that got to the top too late, but he is not a HOFer. Absolutely not.

Having wins over Williams, Pavlik and Barker is not the resume of a HOFer and never will, or should be.

Martinez is a classic case of 'could have been a HOFer' but most certainly isn't.

Either way, he's better than Lacy.

Also, what do you mean by two division lineal champion? He was never a champ at 154 and certainly not a lineal champ there. Never had the opportunity, and never fought for a major title there even once.

His entire career is based on the last few years at 160, which were good, but nowhere near HOF worthy. He didn't do anything except get robbed blind against Cintron at 154.

[Mugwump]

I'm struggling to think of one young fighter with heavy hands and an unbeaten record who hasn't been over-hyped. It's the stock and trade of the sport.

That said, Jeff Lacey was nowhere near as bad a fighter as he has subsequently been portrayed.

Far too many people are obsessed with the weaknesses of post-Calzaghe Lacey when the truth of the matter is that the Jeff Lacey which entered the ring that night ended at the final bell.

Calzaghe (regardless of what anyone thinks of him) broke that kid into pieces with one of the finest displays of controlled, targeted aggression I've seen in my lifetime.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

He was an excellent fighter that got to the top too late, but he is not a HOFer. Absolutely not.

Having wins over Williams, Pavlik and Barker is not the resume of a HOFer and never will, or should be.

Martinez is a classic case of 'could have been a HOFer' but most certainly isn't.

Either way, he's better than Lacy.

Also, what do you mean by two division lineal champion? He was never a champ at 154 and certainly not a lineal champ there. Never had the opportunity, and never fought for a major title there even once.

His entire career is based on the last few years at 160, which were good, but nowhere near HOF worthy. He didn't do anything except get robbed blind against Cintron at 154.

He beat the great bunema for a 154 belt, misspoke about lineal at 154, meant to say he should have been had he got the Williams decision. If not technically lineal, he would have been viewed as the #1 154er,, I'm pretty sure him and Williams 1 was a 154 unifier, with rematch at 160

If Kosta tszyu is a hall of famer, then serg has to be a hall of famer... Serg's resume craps all over tzysu's...

[$Bullsfam$]

Lacey really never did anything to warrant his hype except hit hard. Sergio was slick and threw beautiful combinations.

It's just hard to rate the Cotto fight. I HATE the 2 most common opinions of the fight. "Oh Sergios knees where shot", "People who picked Martinez are just making excuses".

You really can't say either way. How do we know Sergio was 100% until the first knockdown buckled his knees and reinjured the leg or Sergio never saw it coming and couldn't recover? Martinez said his knees were fine but really we can't tell until his next fight.

I think Cottos win will always been better though. Lacey never amounted to anything and at least Martinez was legit.

[jas]

Prime Martinez >>>>>>. Prime lacy

[billeau2]

Again, the point is not that Martinez was better or worse than Lacy. Mugwump seems to get it, most are not getting it. Lacy was Hyped, he was held up as a fighter with skills that paid the bills. People forget.

I find it funny that some jackazz inevitably feels the need to misrepresent the point of the thread by stating that Martinez is better than Lacy. Both guys were hyped....thats the point. I don't think Martinez was nearly as good as Cotto...i will say that

[greeh]

I find it funny that some jackazz inevitably feels the need to misrepresent the point of the thread by stating that Martinez is better than Lacy. Both guys were hyped....thats the point. I don't think Martinez was nearly as good as Cotto...i will say that

Is this the first two letters in his name? :hey: