Prime Ali vs Prime Marciano: Who wins?

[beez721]

So Ali could handle the power of Foreman, Frazier, Liston Lyle, Shavers. But not Marciano. That's quite a stretch.

And don't even try to convince me that 185 pound Marciano hit as hard as any of them. And yes, the size matters. Even the smallest of the group Frazier was considerably bigger.

Marciano would wear his opponents down with his incredible conditioning and he had power but generally he was not a one shot KO killer that the Walcott fight has convinced a lot of people.

I agree. marciano needed to get close and chop you down with accumalation. he wasnt a monster one punch guy and I just cant see how he'd have got close enough to a young fast footed ali to have been able to wear him down. I think it would have been a lopsided decision for ali but the post prison ali that lost his foot speed and went to the ropes would have had some problems

[LoadedWraps]

I agree. marciano needed to get close and chop you down with accumalation. he wasnt a monster one punch guy and I just cant see how he'd have got close enough to a young fast footed ali to have been able to wear him down. I think it would have been a lopsided decision for ali but the post prison ali that lost his foot speed and went to the ropes would have had some problems

Except Maricano was adept at cutting off the ring, and he absolutely was a one punch monster type of fighter. Ali could get seriously hurt.

[young_robbed]

Except Maricano was adept at cutting off the ring, and he absolutely was a one punch monster type of fighter. Ali could get seriously hurt.

Was he better than prime 1971 Joe Frazier at cutting the ring off? Did he have a better left hook than Frazier, which is the punch that Ali is vulnerable to?

I think Rocky is too basic to beat Ali to be honest. Walcott, Charles and Moore had success against Rocky. Ali would outbox Rocky from the outside, cut him up with jabs & combo punching. Expect it to be similar to the Chuvalo fight.

[LoadedWraps]

Was he better than prime 1971 Joe Frazier at cutting the ring off? Did he have a better left hook than Frazier, which is the punch that Ali is vulnerable to?

I think Rocky is too basic to beat Ali to be honest. Walcott, Charles and Moore had success against Rocky. Ali would outbox Rocky from the outside, cut him up with jabs & combo punching. Expect it to be similar to the Chuvalo fight.

I think it's unfair to classify Marciano is basic. He is an excellent combination puncher, debastating power, and the ability to set traps. He was also skilled defensively, Ali would only be able to keep hin on the outside for so long, eventually Rocky would make adjustments, and take control of the fight from the inside. The height and reach advantage Ali naturally has would work against him when Marciano stays by his chest and can punish his body relentlessly and land vicious uppercuts.

[young_robbed]

I think it's unfair to classify Marciano is basic. He is an excellent combination puncher, debastating power, and the ability to set traps. He was also skilled defensively, Ali would only be able to keep hin on the outside for so long, eventually Rocky would make adjustments, and take control of the fight from the inside. The height and reach advantage Ali naturally has would work against him when Marciano stays by his chest and can punish his body relentlessly and land vicious uppercuts.

In comparison to Ali, marciano was quite basic. He was just a very strong, hard hitting psychical fighter. he never really possessed the intangibles to beat Ali, and he never faced a mover as strong and as quick & talented as Ali. When did Rocky ever show this ability to cut off the ring on someone like Ali? He was never as good as cutting the ring off as Frazier was.

Again, this goes like the Chuvalo fight. Rocky's power wouldn't be a problem, Ali has dealt with power punchers before (Lyle, foreman, frazier, shavers)

Ali keeps him on the end of the jab, and cuts him up to an eventual late cuts TKO or clear decision.

[billeau2]

We are dealing with two of the best. it is significant comparing Marciano to Frazier. I would say that both Rocky and Joe were in the same stratosphere. Both fought similar....Maybe Frazier had more foot speed, Rocky may have slipped punches better...but if we concede that both guys are similar and roughly equal in talent, and we know that the Frazier Ali thang was what it was!

I don't think Frazier was better than Marciano or vice versa so the one thing i would say is that this is a close fight. marciano was very obviously tough....toughness was integral to how he fought...BUT Ali, despite fightin' pretty, was also one tough compadre! Thats why Ali could hang with the comp he did. Imo Ali versus Rocky looks a lot like Marciano versus Ali...wouldn't want to be the bookie on that one!

[young_robbed]

We are dealing with two of the best. it is significant comparing Marciano to Frazier. I would say that both Rocky and Joe were in the same stratosphere. Both fought similar....Maybe Frazier had more foot speed, Rocky may have slipped punches better...but if we concede that both guys are similar and roughly equal in talent, and we know that the Frazier Ali thang was what it was!

I don't think Frazier was better than Marciano or vice versa so the one thing i would say is that this is a close fight. marciano was very obviously tough....toughness was integral to how he fought...BUT Ali, despite fightin' pretty, was also one tough compadre! Thats why Ali could hang with the comp he did. Imo Ali versus Rocky looks a lot like Marciano versus Ali...wouldn't want to be the bookie on that one!

In 1971, Frazier was better than any version of Marciano at slipping punches & cutting the ring off.. I don't think Rocky would be able to replicate that kind of performance against 1971 Ali, nevermind prime 1966 Ali.

Frazier also had a much better left hook than Rocky, which Ali was vulnerable to.

[billeau2]

In 1971, Frazier was better than any version of Marciano at slipping punches & cutting the ring off.. I don't think Rocky would be able to replicate that kind of performance against 1971 Ali, nevermind prime 1966 Ali.

Frazier also had a much better left hook than Rocky, which Ali was vulnerable to.

Thats possible, as is the opposite. Its difficult to pinpoint some specific quality that makes one guy more than marginally better than the other imo. Frazier used more of a bob and weave which does evade punches... Marciano was more deliberate in slipping, but both guys avoided a lot of harm because a clean shot was hard to land. Both guys pressed. You have Frazier's left hook and Marciano's Suzy Q right...Now there is an argument made that Ali was susceptable to the left hook, but a lot of that argument is derived from the Frazier fights...

Cutting the ring off is a hard one to judge. I dont know what you see in Frazier that convinces you that he was superior in this department....I can't say I see anything that leads me to believe either guy was inferior when it came to the press...I also don't see where Frazier cut the ring more, but thats just an observation, could be! What I do see is neither of these guys ever giving ground. Even when Frazier was Foremanned he kept coming fowards talk about going out on your shield. Starza gave Rocky some problems, I think I am going to watch that fight again.

oh....Regarding Ali. It wouldn't suprise me if prime Ali was as good as you and some others maintain because Ali had such a short prime (jail time) he was like Satchel Page! haha.

[Anthony342]

I like Ali by unanimous decision here.

[LoadedWraps]

I like Ali by unanimous decision here.

Marciano would be too active, too aggressive for Ali to get away with a UD. It would be an all out war.