who did liston beat to be so highly regarded as good??

[butterfly1964]

folley is no top 40 heavy of all time

he beat machen, so machen is not top 40 either.

[Brassangel]

When it comes down to it, they both faced good competition. Mike Tyson probably faced more quality opponents, but Sonny Liston faced two legends who were in their prime, (Patterson & Ali, of course). Since he split with them 2-2, and Tyson's depth of quality opponents probably stretches farther than Liston's, I'd say it's about even. Sonny was, believe it or not, more psychologically stable. Even against someone like Floyd Patterson, who Tyson would have been heavily favored over, he could have found some way to screw it up.

I'd like to watch Liston vs. Tyson, by the way. I had this discussion many times before I left; it would be dangerous, messy, angry, and bloody beautiful.

[SuzieQ49]

he beat machen, so machen is not top 40 either.

thats not the way it works



-buster douglas is no top 40 heavyweight, but he beat mike tyson so mike tyson is no top 40 heavyweight either

[butterfly1964]

thats not the way it works



-buster douglas is no top 40 heavyweight, but he beat mike tyson so mike tyson is no top 40 heavyweight either

that wasn't tyson at his best, though.

[SuzieQ49]

ur missing the point. zora folley was not as good as eddie machen and cleveland williams . folley had a glass jaw and was knocked out 4 times in his prime by journeyman/or in doug jones case a light hitter

[Brassangel]

*sigh*

Ugh...while we all know Tyson drank, partied, and forgot about a thing called sleep before his fight with Douglas; and James was certainly not a top 40 all-time heavyweight, he was a top 40 heavyweight on that night.

Regardless of how much Tyson blew it after he switched teams, don't take anything away from Buster Douglas on that night in Tokyo. Mike Tyson was a phenomenon, and one of the most amazing and skilled athletes to have graced the sport; even with everything he had going against him that night. It would have taken a man with remarkable focus, endurance, and training to pull off the biggest upset in history, at the only time he would have been given such a grand opportunity. I would have taken James "Buster" Douglas against most top 40 fighters on January 10, 1991. The thing to ponder was how good he could have been had he continually maintained that focus. I guess we will never know.

Even so, on the original topic, Liston was a great fighter. He didn't have an amazing title reign like Ali or Louis or Holmes, but in head-to-head match ups, it would be hard to select any fighter over him. On the other side of the plate, however, head-to-head should only account for about 25%-35% of a fighter's rankings in terms of greatness.

I would rank Liston in the top 6 all-time. Go over to the March Madness thread I made and see; he got a "2" seat.

[QueensburyRules]

When it comes down to it, they both faced good competition. Mike Tyson probably faced more quality opponents, but Sonny Liston faced two legends who were in their prime, (Patterson & Ali, of course). Since he split with them 2-2, and Tyson's depth of quality opponents probably stretches farther than Liston's, I'd say it's about even. Sonny was, believe it or not, more psychologically stable. Even against someone like Floyd Patterson, who Tyson would have been heavily favored over, he could have found some way to screw it up.

I'd like to watch Liston vs. Tyson, by the way. I had this discussion many times before I left; it would be dangerous, messy, angry, and bloody beautiful.

- -In physical attributes needed for boxing, Liston had it all.

Fresh out of prison still a kid where he learned how to box, he whupped the bigger, stronger, more mature Olympic gold medalist Ed Sanders.

Mentally he was still bound by his sharecropper family tradition that made him easy to exploit much like Tyson. He was still greatly feared not only by the fighters, but by the public.

[Rusty Tromboni]

- -In physical attributes needed for boxing, Liston had it all.

Uhhhh you need a good chin to be good at Boxing.

But you're right about him also lacking heart and self-confidence.

[BKM-]

For some unknown reason, I feel even dumber having read the last couple of pages of this thread.

LMAO. I loved this guy, one of the best posters I ever saw on this site. I wonder what happened to Yogi, hopefully he's still alive throwing puns at people, he was already getting up there in age way back in 06.