Forgotten Fighters

[edgarg]

Sands was on the undercard of Turpin v Robinson, but his opponent was Mel Brown and Sands won a decision.

e

Dave Sands

164

79 9 1

W

PTS

10/10

Mel Brown

164½

44 14 2

pro boxing

bout wiki scores

Sands cut by the left eye

Sands beat Turpin on another occasion.

Tuesday 6, September 1949 i Harringay Arena, Harringay, London, United Kingdom commission British Boxing Board of Control promoter Jack Solomons

middle

Dave Sands

159

68 9 1

W

KO

1/15

**** Turpin

157½

79 16 5

pro boxing

bout wiki scores

time: 2:45 | referee: Ben Green Commonwealth (British Empire) Middle Title Turpin down twice prior to the ko Boxing News 14-9-1949 p13

Memory fails sometimes. Good pickup.

[Willow The Wisp]

"Forgotten" being a highly relative term here, of course. Pele, Maradona and Beckham are the only three professional Football (Soccer) players that the typical American remembers, and all of the others are effectively "Forgotten" if not unknown entirely. That's primarily because the US was early to start the institutions of recreation for the middle class, and professional sports by extension on a large scale; and their schedule filled up with Boxing, Baseball, Football, Basketball..native games except for Boxing, beginning in the 1870s. This aided in the preclusion of Empire sports like Soccer, Rugby and Cricket in the American consciousness. This has changed some over time, the US being the top immigration destination on earth and all, but not much. Why this matters, at the risk of being another "Ugly American" is because the US owns more than 30% of global net wealth and generates by far the biggest chunk of professional sports revenue; so by the pure measure of that, if you ain't made it here, you ain't made it. Obviously, the world's other 194 sovereign nations housing 95.75% of the planet's people might beg to differ, regarding which athletes are remembered and which are "Forgotten". But you can see my point relating to Forgotten being relative. To my thinking, and that of the reasoning mind, you have boxing fans and non-boxing fans. Among those who identify as fans, you have less knowledgeable ones and very knowledgeable ones. Among the latter group, very few of the fighters mentioned in this thread are at all truly Forgotten. Personally, I kind of detest the term. I mean, how many Nobel Prize winners can you name???
Fame is fleeting even when it's not limited to language and cultural barriers. My grandkids know Frank Sinatra a little, but no other famous crooner or band leaders of the 40s & 50s. They have heard of Elvis, the Stones and the Beatles, but no other musical act from the 60s. Same for Hollywood and most other iconic personalities from days gone by who are not served up in school curriculum.
So anyway.......
No hall-of-famers or Black dynamite, sundowner, murders row types who have been revisited with a contemporary boost. That ain't forgotten.
Skilled campaigners who once made regional headlines as contenders, who were good enough to threaten to break into 'immortality' but did not.

A few really, really good fighters who might be known (Without BoxRecing or Googling) now only to the most geeked historian types.......

Lefty LeChance, Featherweight, Lewiston, ME. I've got his portrait hanging in my office among the greats (Geeeek!).
Bruno Arcari, Super Lightweight, Genoa, Italy
Fighting Billy Murray, Middleweight, Petaluma, CA
Eddie Shevlin, Welterweight, Boston, MA
George Rose, Welterweight, Bristol, England
Llew Edwards, Lightweight, Porth, Wales
Oakland Jimmy Duffy, Welterweight, Oakland, CA
Dave Holly, Lightweight, Camden, NJ
Seaman Tommy Watson, Featherweight, Newcastle, England
Young Erne, Lightweight, Philadelphia, PA
Auguste Grassi, Bantamweight, Paris, France
Leonard Morrow, Lightheavyweight, Oakland, CA
Joe DeNucci, Middleweight, Newton, MA
Frank Barrieau, Welterweight, Oakland, CA
Arthur Schaekels, Welterweight, Brussels, Belgium
Johnny Basham, Welterweight, Newport, Wales
Pistol Pete Ranzany, Welterweight, Sacramento, CA
Karel Sys, Heavyweight, Osttende, Belgium
Chico Vejar, Welterweight, Stamford, CT
Hippolyte Tyncke, Middleweight, Ledeberg, Belgium
Richie Kates, Lightheavyweight, Bridgeton, NJ
Pal Silvers, Middleweight, Brooklyn, NY
Jimmy Jones, Welterweight, Youngstown, OH
Soldier Bartfield, Welterweight, Budapest, Hungary
Young Joe Brooks, Featherweight, London, England
Richard Vogt, Lightheavyweight, Hamburg, Germany
Nate Bolden, Middleweight, Chicago, IL
Carlos Hernandez, Super Lightheavyweight, Caracas, Venezuela
Johnny Gant, Welterweight, Washington, DC
Paul Andrews, Heavyweight, Buffalo, NY
Nkosana Mgxaji, Lightweight, East London, South Africa
Tim Hegarty, Featherweight, Melbourne, Australia
Mike DeJohn, Heavyweight, Syracuse, NY
Ciro Morasen, Featherweight, Santiago, Cuba
Clyde Gray, Welterweight, Toronto, ON, Canada
Leo Rodak, Featherweight, Chicago, IL
Bep van Klaveren, Welterweight, Rotterdam, Netherlands
George Courtney, Lightheavyweight, Tulsa OK
Ernie Vigh, Middleweight, New York, NY
Joao Henrique, Welterweight, Sao Paulo, Brazil
Masao Oba, Flyweight, Tokyo, Japan
Percy Jones, Flyweight, Porth, Wales, UK
Chucho Castillo, Bantamweight, Mexico City, Mexico
Digger Stanley, Flyweight, London, England
Patsy Peroni, Heavyweight, Canton, OH
Joe LaGrey, Middleweight, Brooklyn, NY
Jack Bennett, Middleweight, McKeesport, PA

.....don't get me started.

[Willie Pep 229]

Well someone has to be forgotten or there would be no such thing as an ATG.

Lists like the one above smacks of 'everyone gets a trophy' thinking.

[Ivich]

Memory fails sometimes. Good pickup.

Tell me about it! lol

[Willow The Wisp]

Well someone has to be forgotten or there would be no such thing as an ATG.

Lists like the one above smacks of 'everyone gets a trophy' thinking.

I don't know what that even means. Those are all great fighters.

Look em' up. Each one far beyond the norm.

[GhostofDempsey]

Apparently Carlos Ortiz was forgotten about because there wasn’t all that much chatter about his passing or his career. I would have thought there would be more press for an ATG.

[Ben Bolt]

very few of the fighters mentioned in this thread are at all truly Forgotten.

I wish they weren’t, but most of them are. At least if you read the boxing forums (not only this one), they deserve some more attention, but the household names generally draw all the attention. It’s like we forget, that there hadn’t been any great Dempseys, Robinsones, Marcianos or Alis if we hadn’t seen less skilled, but as brave warriors, entering the rings.

About falling into oblivion, we will all get there, most often before our own departure of this planet. The younger generations don’t care that much about the oldies’ preferences, just as we ourselves didn’t. We rarely, or never, spared a thought for our own ancestors’ struggle in life.
And why we shouldn’t take our own lives too seriously. The future will not be interested in us.

Interesting in that Boxrec don't list a date of death in this his 74th year, so it seems like some enterprising young video gun might want to seek him out and maybe put some cash in his pockets for an interview.

How often haven’t you seen these portraits of old, softspoken and humble men. And you can’t understand, that once upon a time, they were young, mean and brutal.

[Willow The Wisp]

I wish they weren’t, but most of them are. At least if you read the boxing forums (not only this one), they deserve some more attention, but the household names generally draw all the attention. It’s like we forget, that there hadn’t been any great Dempseys, Robinsones, Marcianos or Alis if we hadn’t seen less skilled, but as brave warriors, entering the rings.

About falling into oblivion, we will all get there, most often before our own departure of this planet. The younger generations don’t care that much about the oldies’ preferences, just as we ourselves didn’t. We rarely, or never, spared a thought for our own ancestors’ struggle in life.
And why we shouldn’t take our own lives too seriously. The future will not be interested in us.



How often haven’t you seen these portraits of old, softspoken and humble men. And you can’t understand, that once upon a time, they were young, mean and brutal.

Very true, and a thoughtful post. Ortiz died a hero in Puerto Rico, of course; but fame these days is filtered through an unprecidented bombardment of information, and so many choices being offered. I can remember a time when it was the morning paper, Life and Time magazine weekly, the radio, hobby oriented magazines, the kids at school, teachers lessons, and three television networks serving up what data people consumed, largely. (A 1960s US perspective).
Who dominates the pop charts in 2020?, no idea. The musical acts who populated the charts when I was 10, 20, 30? Forgotten. Unless you lived in an English speaking nation, and you were there. Fame is more fleeting than ever, with all the oversaturation.
My idea above was to name a few highly accomplished professionals from the past. Recent past and beyond living memory ago; so that the knowledgeable people who post in the history section here might read the names and be curious, and thirsty to expand their knowledge. Take a break from cyber fighting & posturing and intended expressions of wit, and grab a little information about boxing history, the nature of which (Forgotten) isn't likely to be found in Adam Pollock's latest offering. Anyway, if anyone were to pick one or two of my listed old war horses and cared to research or dicuss em', the trough is there to drink from.

[LITTLE JOE]

Gene Hatcher won a Jr welterweight title from Bump City Bumphus. One of the most unlikely of champions that I can remember. Does he count ?

[Ben Bolt]

Gene Hatcher won a Jr welterweight title from Bump City Bumphus. One of the most unlikely of champions that I can remember. Does he count ?

In the 1980 Olympics, we were denied a terrific matchup between Bumphus and Cuban star Angel Herrera, due to the US boycott of the games.

Hatcher’s come-from-behind win over Bumphus pictures boxing when it is at its best. Like a soccer team trailing by 0-2, before scoring three goals in the 90th minute.