How old is boxing in the west

[wiggin123]

How old is the sport of pro boxing in the west?

[McGoorty]

How old is the sport of pro boxing in the west?

VERY VERY OLD my friend, it was invented as a sport by the ancient Greeks, so ancient that it was around before even Homer. The sport we think of as boxing though comes from the renaissance of boxing in England due to the brilliant mind and boxing of Jim Figg who is the first recognised Champion of Britain (therefore the world). Figg began at the beginning of the 1700's. The sport was still basically a circus though until the mid 1700's when the great Jack Broughton changed and improved the rules. Jack Broughton had brought some degree of science into the sport but the first truely scientific boxer was the incredible ***ish fighter Daniel Mendoza who published the sports first ever training manual, a book you can still read today. Mendoza is maybe the best fighter of the entire 18th century. BUT, boxing was bare knuckle, included chokes, throws, grappling, You must think of 18th century boxing as virtually the early UFC except that once fighters went to ground, they were stood up, there were very few rules and far less sportsmanship. Tom Cribb went so far as to wrap the ropes around Tom Molineax's neck then pounded dozens and dozens of downward punches in Tom's face. That fight was so dirty, so brutal that by the end of the fight both fighters barely has a square inch of skin left on their faces. Molineaux's face was so badly busted up he looked like a bag of mince.

[Ben Bolt]

This is a pretty good link, covering the most household names of the bareknuckle era, starting with “the father of modern boxing” James Figg.

http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/barenuk.htm

[ShoulderRoll]

It goes back before ancient Greece. There are Egyptian paintings showing boxers. (although Egypt technically might not be considered to be "the west" I guess.)

[bklynboy]

It goes back before ancient Greece. There are Egyptian paintings showing boxers. (although Egypt technically might not be considered to be "the west" I guess.)

Fighting has been going on since they've been people. But boxing ... that's another story. Is bare knuckles boxing? Is London Prize Rules boxing? I would say no to both. Muay Thai is a fighting art - but not boxing. Neither is Aikido.

We need to define boxing. If it's in a ring; set time for a round; fist only (especially knuckles only); and from the waist up; no holding - then we can begin to consider it boxing. Gloves and wraps make a big difference. As far as I understand it started to limit the blood but had the unintended consequence of protecting the hand allowing "boxing" to begin.

I'll let others continue ....

[StarshipTrooper]

Fighting has been going on since they've been people. But boxing ... that's another story. Is bare knuckles boxing? Is London Prize Rules boxing? I would say no to both. Muay Thai is a fighting art - but not boxing. Neither is Aikido.

We need to define boxing. If it's in a ring; set time for a round; fist only (especially knuckles only); and from the waist up; no holding - then we can begin to consider it boxing. Gloves and wraps make a big difference. As far as I understand it started to limit the blood but had the unintended consequence of protecting the hand allowing "boxing" to begin.

I'll let others continue ....

The ancient Greeks used gloves.....the gloves just happened to have sp1kes on them

[RSBonos]

It goes back before ancient Greece. There are Egyptian paintings showing boxers. (although Egypt technically might not be considered to be "the west" I guess.)

I took a class that covered some early sport history and while there was boxing/wrestling/running in pre-ancient Greek days it was most likely non-competitive and more towards ritual style hype for a king to look good. Then again info from that era is mostly guesswork. By the time of the original Olympics boxing was a legit sport.

The Greeks regarded boxing as the most demanding combat sport, they would wrestle or participate in pankration in the morning (for cross-over athletes) and box in the evening.

[Anthony342]

So when did the whole Marquess of Queensbury rules that we still use today start? Isn't that when it was decided on 15 rounds of 3 minutes each with gloves and hand wraps. I also remember reading that mouthpieces were originally only used in training until it was added as protection during an actual match as well. I wonder if that means headgear will someday be used in pro fights. What do you guys think? I mean, they use it in the amateurs and in sparring.

[billeau2]

Some of the issues raised here have a lot to do with a common problem in Hopology (the formal study of combat). When things existed and what we know of them vis a vis....how these arts were documented and transmitted, has a lot to do with what can be said about the history of an art.

MesoAmerica must have had an incredible set of arts, the Aztecs had to take prisoners en masse to be sacrificed. The Spanish missionaries wrote about how these arts looked: "the one Indian took the other Indian by the hair, with a blood curdling scream he mounted him, grabbing his hair and pantomined what he would do with an obsidian blade." But we have neither text nor practicioner to whom we can see this art....Egypt, Persia, etc. Persians have some wrestling styles but the combat arts of Alexander the Great? these arts have long since been put in the dustbin of history, confined to the lexicon of dead arts.

BKLyn Boy what we call boxing is distinct because it comes from fencing. figg was also a fencer and the art developed a way to settle a duel without a weapon. Then socioeconomics took over and Irish fighters came to rule the roost. This created the crucible under which boxing....fighting with mufflers in an exhibition, not with swords, would become what we know it to be.

What the Greeks practiced was different, the object and derivation was different. Greek combatives were more closely tied to MMA type combat. The Romans while appreciating the subtlety of a gladiator who knew the use of weapons had no real boxing to speak of. Thats my understanding

[billeau2]

So when did the whole Marquess of Queensbury rules that we still use today start? Isn't that when it was decided on 15 rounds of 3 minutes each with gloves and hand wraps. I also remember reading that mouthpieces were originally only used in training until it was added as protection during an actual match as well. I wonder if that means headgear will someday be used in pro fights. What do you guys think? I mean, they use it in the amateurs and in sparring.

Don't know the exact dates but the Marquiss was quite the innovator. One of the ******est things that people did was "honor killings" much like kids get shot up today....to be an aristocrat in Europe traditionally meant that certain insults had to be settled in a duel. Many individuals would learn to fight and get into a duel deliberately for the thrill of the kill. You had medieval bastard sword users, Italian renaissance dandies, Spanish/Iberian fencers and some pretty damn good German fencing schools....all in the mix! The Marquis' proposition was a lifesaver. Put the swords down and the fists up. Gloves were originally called mufflers and used in exhibitions.