Top 20 of all times?

[Anthony342]

Where does Roy rank historically as a light heavyweight? He was probably the best one of his era, probably would've beaten Darius no?

[IronDanHamza]

Where does Roy rank historically as a light heavyweight? He was probably the best one of his era, probably would've beaten Darius no?

I have him #10.

Of course he'd have beaten Dariasz

[Sugar Adam Ali]

My point is is their resumes are not close.

Not in talent faced, not in depth, not in any way.

Roy Jones clearly has a much better resume than Johnson.

Its tough to determine talent faced, from the johnson era with barely any footage and ultimately boxing as a sport was still in its infancy. Johnson did outpoint langford, grant it he was a smaller guy coming up, and didnt rematch him but then Jeanette a few times,, probably would have beaten flynn if it wasnt a 4 or 6 rounder...
Johnson's world title reign may be alittle weak, but most of his best victories was when he was fighting for the colored championship before his world title reign... Its a shame that he hardly ever defended the world title vs other black fighters..

[IronDanHamza]

Its tough to determine talent faced, from the johnson era with barely any footage and ultimately boxing as a sport was still in its infancy. Johnson did outpoint langford, grant it he was a smaller guy coming up, and didnt rematch him but then Jeanette a few times,, probably would have beaten flynn if it wasnt a 4 or 6 rounder...
Johnson's world title reign may be alittle weak, but most of his best victories was when he was fighting for the colored championship before his world title reign... Its a shame that he hardly ever defended the world title vs other black fighters..

So we have Langord who he outweighed by 30 lbs and we have Joe Jeanette who was the definition of Green as your reasoning as to why his resume is comparable to Roy Jones'?

Who else? A green Sam Mcvea? Who else?

His resume is not close to Roy Jones'. No where near close.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

I have him #10.

Of course he'd have beaten Dariasz

Do you think Tarver was better than michlewski???

Im not sure how a roy-dariusz fight would have gone,, obviously roy would be the favorite, but i think dariasz would be a very live dog. He might be a little too slow to catch roy, but i think if roy backed into the ropes like he did so much at 175, it would have opened up opportunities for dariusz to unload and maybe catch roy.. I def think dariusz possessed the punching power to hurt roy, it is just a question of whether he can track roy down.. IMO roy was a much better mover at 160-168, I never really saw that type of movement from him at 175, thou he did move well for all 12 rounds vs ruiz, but that might just be a case of ruiz being way too slow. Look at how roy moved vs hopkins and toney, and then compare to roy that fought at 175 and you will see a difference in his movement, and he developed the habit of going back to the ropes and looking to counter guys coming at him. He got by lesser fighters doing that, but im not sure that would be the blueprint for success vs dariusz/tarver type fighter...

I still would favor roy, but i dont think its by a super wide margin, and dariusz has a legit shot at hurting roy if he was able to track him down against the ropes...

[Sugar Adam Ali]

So we have Langord who he outweighed by 30 lbs and we have Joe Jeanette who was the definition of Green as your reasoning as to why his resume is comparable to Roy Jones'?

Who else? A green Sam Mcvea? Who else?

His resume is not close to Roy Jones'. No where near close.

How can you determine if they were green,, it was over 100 years ago, and hardly any footage. Johnson fought at least once, nearly every name from his era,,,, Wills may have been around but was just starting out, other than that i cant think of any fights that didnt get made, except for langford rematch

I dont see how Roy's resume can be so vastly superior to johnson's,,, Neither has a long list of great fighters, just a long list of solid, contender type wins
Roy literally fought no one of any historical substance from 88-03 besides toney and hopkins..
Roy might have a slightly better resume, but its not that much better

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Do you think Tarver was better than michlewski???

Im not sure how a roy-dariusz fight would have gone,, obviously roy would be the favorite, but i think dariasz would be a very live dog. He might be a little too slow to catch roy, but i think if roy backed into the ropes like he did so much at 175, it would have opened up opportunities for dariusz to unload and maybe catch roy.. I def think dariusz possessed the punching power to hurt roy, it is just a question of whether he can track roy down.. IMO roy was a much better mover at 160-168, I never really saw that type of movement from him at 175, thou he did move well for all 12 rounds vs ruiz, but that might just be a case of ruiz being way too slow. Look at how roy moved vs hopkins and toney, and then compare to roy that fought at 175 and you will see a difference in his movement, and he developed the habit of going back to the ropes and looking to counter guys coming at him. He got by lesser fighters doing that, but im not sure that would be the blueprint for success vs dariusz/tarver type fighter...

I still would favor roy, but i dont think its by a super wide margin, and dariusz has a legit shot at hurting roy if he was able to track him down against the ropes...

I forgot to add in that this was a breakdown of dariusz-roy fight had in happened in 01-02,, That was the most likely time they would have fought, and that is the time period i base my breakdown on,, those versions of each fighter

[IronDanHamza]

How can you determine if they were green,, it was over 100 years ago, and hardly any footage. Johnson fought at least once, nearly every name from his era,,,, Wills may have been around but was just starting out, other than that i cant think of any fights that didnt get made, except for langford rematch

I dont see how Roy's resume can be so vastly superior to johnson's,,, Neither has a long list of great fighters, just a long list of solid, contender type wins
Roy literally fought no one of any historical substance from 88-03 besides toney and hopkins..
Roy might have a slightly better resume, but its not that much better

They were green because they'd both a professional a year before they fought Johnson and had barely any fights.

I constantly keep seeing the same argument "He fought everybody" what does that matter? What difference does it make to how good his resume is?

Roy Jones resume is much better than Johnson's because he beat much better fighters, simple as that.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

They were green because they'd both a professional a year before they fought Johnson and had barely any fights.

I constantly keep seeing the same argument "He fought everybody" what does that matter? What difference does it make to how good his resume is?

Roy Jones resume is much better than Johnson's because he beat much better fighters, simple as that.

Fair enough,,,,

[Weltschmerz]

Here's a crack at my top 20 ATG list. There are a few notables I've left out, but it is mainly down to me not being able to give an accurate enough account of their status as ATGs.

Who's on your list?

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Joe Louis
5. Harry Greb
6. Benny Leonard
7. Jack Johnson
8. Roberto Duran
9. Willie Pep
10. Gene Tunney
11. Micky Walker
12. Sam Langford
13. Julio Cesar Chavez
14. Joe Gans
15. Archie Moore
16. Sugar Ray Leonard
17. Jack Dempsey
18. Kid Chocolate
19. Jimmy Wilde
20. Barbados Joe Walcott

What do you base your list on?