Mythical Match Up #2: Rid**** Bowe vs. Lennox Lewis (Fall, 1994)

[beez721]

There is another post coming making the case for Ruddock's chin which I will agree with....Dan you are old enough so let me ask you this....If Ruddock had no chin, was so far below Bowe, who as said never fought much in the way of comp aside from the Holly trilogy....WHY was he so touted? Certainly he was a one armed fighter but he had some attributes. Including his chin!

I assume you are NOT inferring from my post that I said Ruddock had a better jab than Bowe. I did intimate that Bowe did not have much of a jab and I stand by that...he was a pawrer!! So the fact that Bowe may have marginally had a better jab that Ruddock, who never saw a punch he liked aside from a left hook....is academic.

I think you, like a lot of guys are overrating Bowe, though again, Futch must have seen something.

agree with you about Ruddock but I feel youre underrating bowe's jab. he did occasionally paw with it ( espescially later in his career) but more often than not he did really snap it out there and it was a weapon. he also had a viscious uppercut on the inside and mixed his punches up well to the body and head unlike most big tall heavyweights

[Sugar Adam Ali]

pretty much agree altho I think Ruddock had bigger one punch power. I just didn't agree with the post saying bowe had a much better chin as he didn't face the powerful punchers ruddock faced. bowe's chin was obviously at least descent but im not sure it was any better or worse than ruddocks. the only guy to really bomb Ruddock out early was lewis and that was an absolute bomb on the chin that detonated on Ruddock that he never recovered from. plus I think Ruddock was past his best at that point anyway. not sure bowe would have taken that shot any better or worse.
back to bowe/lewis,,,,,, I feel bowe would have beaten lewis before manny steward got a hold of him. under manny he was more technically sound and set up his punches better. that lewis probably stops bowe

Ruddock had a decent chin,, but when faced with a huge puncher like lewis like you mentioned, he was blown out in about 4 mins....

Ruddock's chin isnt bad, just wasnt a great chin, at heavy, anyone can get dropped because everyone hits so hard compared to the lower weight classes

its safe to say ruddock had a solid chin, just nothing spectacular about it

[Sugarj]

Lol on the head****ing...and the chemical enhancements for that matter....You point out that the best version of Holly is debatable and I agree. You definitely make a great case for the first version of Holly....here is another feather in your cap. Hollyfield has always been a guy who could buckle down and at times listen to his corner and at times, defy them and attack attack attack. In the first fight against Bowe IF he had listened to his corner and boxed more he might have been victorious. So one definitely has to factor in that it took considerable skill to match Bowe, a bigger physically stronger opponent...an opponent he could have done much better with using a different strategy. The way he fought that fight was exciting but not smart.

And ditto in the reverse for Tyson. A lot of the credit for his victories has to be given to his team. Holyfield did exactly what he was told and kept Tyson unbalanced....His skill was not so much in need as his confidence (one had to be in on Mike and push on him....scary at the time!) and his ability to do what he was told.

Yes, much as I like to believe that Holyfield didn't take anabolic steroids I am a little su****ious that he may have dabbled in some shady substances. He definitely mixed in bodybuilding circles, made a terrific transition from cruiserweight (I gather he added an inch or so to his height!), looked absolutely ripped in the Tyson fight and the whole 'Evan Fields' postal package does cast doubts.

You have to wonder if a nutritionist, or body building associate were to offer him say HGH (human growth hormone) or testosterone with the phrase that they both occur naturally in the body (and are not in a sense the same as anabolic steroids, at least that's not what the packet says!) whether Holyfield would have felt any shame, guilt or reluctance. Possibly blood doping after altitude training too. 'Its still your blood, all natural'.....

I do believe in Holyfield's religious convictions, despite his well publicised misdemeanours. But when it comes down to a person's less than moral decisions, it often boils down to the angle or spin they can put on it to make themselves feel less guilty. I'd be very surprised to find out that he knowingly took anabolic steroids at the very least during training camps for fights. But I'd be surprised if he never took banned substances....even if he was playing ignorant to it.

As for corner advice. Yea, he had a great strategy for Tyson. The corner prepared him well. But I do think that 1991/92 Holyfield would have done a terrific job on 1996 Tyson even if he went to war.....he was so damned fast and lively. Prime for prime, different story. But I stand by my original conviction that 1996 Holyfield (even with a great corner plan and all the discipline in the world) would not have beaten 1992/93 Bowe. He needed all his speed, work rate and athleticism to beat 'that' Bowe.

But back on topic for a big guy Bowe was quite something in fight one; great work rate himself and 12 round stamina, fast hands, nice combinations, solid chin. 1994 Lewis wouldn't have beaten 'that' Bowe...I'm sure of it; and probably the Bowe from Holyfield 2 as well.

[fight_professor]

Lewis would lose to any Bowe pre 1996. Bowe was for a short while, a very fine HW fighter.

[Anthony342]

Very doubtful. If you watch the Holyfield from Bowe 1 & 2, then watch his 1996 encounter with Tyson.....he had clearly declined. Both efforts against Bowe were prime performances from Holyfield which demonstrated fantastic athleticism, work rate and combination punches of a near Ali standard. He was no longer the blown up cruiser; he'd been handling big heavyweights for two or three years at this point and had taken some sickening whacks from George Foreman enroute.

The 1996 Holyfield was not as fast, his combinations were less crisp and his work rate was much reduced. At the time many were stunned by his win over Tyson. But in hindsight looking back, were his victories over 'that' version of Tyson or Moorer really that impressive? It was only 12 months previous to his first Tyson win that he was stopped by a very slow and sluggish version of Bowe........even if he did have a cold, he really struggled fighting in the same style that shaded him the second fight.

There does seem to be a body of thought in these parts which would agree with you that the Holyfield that met Tyson in 1996/97 was a superior force at heavyweight. But not me; to my eyes the Holyfield of 1991/92 was one of the finest heavyweights I've seen. The Holyfield that lost to Bowe first time around was spectacular, I'm sure he'd have beaten many an all time great on even that losing performance. His speed, combination work, stamina and heart were on full show.

Its certainly arguable that the heavier, older version of Holyfield who had really mastered clinching, leaning on and pacing (not to mention work with the head!) was better suited to beating the post prime second coming of Mike Tyson. But was 'that' Tyson anything really special? I honestly think that 1996 Holyfield loses to any versions of the Rid**** Bowe that he did meet earlier.

It wasn't a cold. I heard it was some form of Hepatitis.

[StarshipTrooper]

It wasn't a cold. I heard it was some form of Hepatitis.

That's what I understood as well.

[Sugarj]

It wasn't a cold. I heard it was some form of Hepatitis.

At the time reports varied from a cold to flu or a fever. From memory the hepatitis claim came rather later..........it certainly sounds like a better excuse. I'm not doubting the hepatitis, just the timing......and whether it was actually to blame for the result.

To me, Holyfield ran out of gas in almost exactly the same way that he did against Moorer; That loss was blamed on either a heart murmur or a mild heart attack.

[Anthony342]

Was that when Holyfield had a heart problem, which left it enlarged briefly, then healed and was cleared to fight again after visiting a Mayo Clinic?

[IronDanHamza]

There is another post coming making the case for Ruddock's chin which I will agree with....Dan you are old enough so let me ask you this....If Ruddock had no chin, was so far below Bowe, who as said never fought much in the way of comp aside from the Holly trilogy....WHY was he so touted? Certainly he was a one armed fighter but he had some attributes. Including his chin!

I assume you are NOT inferring from my post that I said Ruddock had a better jab than Bowe. I did intimate that Bowe did not have much of a jab and I stand by that...he was a pawrer!! So the fact that Bowe may have marginally had a better jab that Ruddock, who never saw a punch he liked aside from a left hook....is academic.

I think you, like a lot of guys are overrating Bowe, though again, Futch must have seen something.

I'm not saying Ruddock has a bad chin but I don't think he had a good chin. I wouldn't say it was better than Bowe's.

Ruddock was a good fighter for sure. Not dis*****g that he was a solid top contender.

I just don't consider him to be Bowe's level. I don't really rate Bowe that highly either.

[StarshipTrooper]

Was that when Holyfield had a heart problem, which left it enlarged briefly, then healed and was cleared to fight again after visiting a Mayo Clinic?

That was the first Moorer fight.