David Haye vs Jack Dempsey

[billeau2]

I see Jack using the "shoulder roll" pretty modern day stuff hahahaha!!!!
Watching film from that era goives you a false assumption that the fellows move awkwardly and don't have vcoordination, its not true!


Why do all the "old time" fighter have to move up to these times!!!

Lets take this fellow Haye and bring him back to Jack!

Modern times don't equate to newer boxing techniques! Tell me what techniques are in place now that weren't back in the day?
Everyone was impressed with Ali's laterial movement but the generation before Ali saw Willie Pastrano (Dundee trained) then the next generation saw Robinson then back to Pep!!!!! Hell even Dempsey is using laterial movement against Willard!! Bigger, faster, stronger,............Dumber with less Heart!
Ray.

Some of these idiots actually believe that human beings have "evolved" like genetically undergone a transformation in 100 years so that they punch harder, are more muscular, smarter, you get the idea

Then you have the peanut gallery that may bring up the Tunney fight...as though Haye could compare to Tunney...i.e. Tunney was able to outbox Dempsy why not Haye? haha

[billeau2]

Suppose you were around in the 20's .......

We have a line of boxing greats who saw Dempsy fight and these individuals saw modern fighters. When looking at film when we analyze it properly, take away the ackwardness of the speed and other technical filming factors people who train fighters know what to look for! For example, even in the acward footage of the Willard fight one can see that Desmpsey's hook is phenominal and that both men can cover quite a distance with a lead punch.

Because you cannot analyze something does not mean it cannot be done.

[tonyjones]

Take a look at Ken Norton - then take a look at chris arreola. Arreola is 30 pounds overweight. He should be walking into fights at 210 max. Klitschko and Lewis were in good shape but few other fighters really are in excellent shape over 220 pounds.

I would also say that Tyson would have hit just as hard at 205 instead of 215. The extra 10 pounds made him look like a brick wall but I'm not too certain it added that much extra power.

Tyson patterned himself after Dempsey and I don't think he hit all that much harder. How sure are you that Haye would walk through Tyson? Now imagine a Tyson who didn't lose his confidence and will when things got tough. Image a Tyson who turned into an Arturo Gatti when things got tough - then you would have a good picture of Dempsey.

Haye, in my mind, is a contender - at best. In no era does he lead the pack. It's a testimony to how poor the heavyweight division currently is for him even to be talked about.

What make you believe modern athletes are so superior to earlier ones - especially in a fighting sport? Look at baseball - pitchers are not throwing harder today than did Walter Johnson, Cy Young, Bob Feller. And certainly don't bring up the Olympics that is a false comparison.

I can't understand why always in these debates lads from the US bring up baseball and act like its a sport that anyone else even cares less about...I use the term sport loosely aswell because it sure looks like a whole lot of standing around....


Examples of superior athletes in sports in worldwide include Federer (tennis) messi (soccer) bolt (athletics) take your pic for (rugby) phelps (swimming)

[KillaMANE704]

I think dem old boxers were 100% more tougher than todays fighters, and if haye wudnt take no chances against klitko....picture him fighting Demspey who trying 2 actually kill his ass...demspey by stoppage round 4

[Ray Corso]

toneyjones; Baseball is used for examples because its viewed by millions of people who understand the game from the players perspective and relize the coordination it takes to play and play it at a high level! Its the only game where the ball is held by the defense!!! Tennis and all the sports you mentioned are all appreciated by "us"! You see in the states all sports are accepted for their own merits!!!
Theres a certain talent that could square up a round ball with a rounded bat when its thrown as a 58mph knuckler to a fast ball at 107 mph!!!! Try it then tell mme how "unathletic" it is!!! Run the bases from home to home in less than 16 seconds! (90ft each base) Play the sport for 5 1/2 months a day off every 20 days and get an idea of traveling from coast to coast and north to south and inbetween! This isn't Ireland where you can walk around and get to where you need to go!! We have more beer halls to shoot darts at in Florida than you do in Ireland!! hahaha!!!! Oh well good luck with Trump he'll be a great landlord for you. You'll love em'! :****you: you: Ray.

[Scott9945]

toneyjones; Baseball is used for examples because its viewed by millions of people who understand the game from the players perspective and relize the coordination it takes to play and play it at a high level! Its the only game where the ball is held by the defense!!! Tennis and all the sports you mentioned are all appreciated by "us"! You see in the states all sports are accepted for their own merits!!!
Theres a certain talent that could square up a round ball with a rounded bat when its thrown as a 58mph knuckler to a fast ball at 107 mph!!!! Try it then tell mme how "unathletic" it is!!! Run the bases from home to home in less than 16 seconds! (90ft each base) Play the sport for 5 1/2 months a day off every 20 days and get an idea of traveling from coast to coast and north to south and inbetween! This isn't Ireland where you can walk around and get to where you need to go!! We have more beer halls to shoot darts at in Florida than you do in Ireland!! hahaha!!!! Oh well good luck with Trump he'll be a great landlord for you. You'll love em'! :****you: you: Ray.

My favorite Ray Corso post ever.

[Roy Keane]

Take a look at Ken Norton - then take a look at chris arreola. Arreola is 30 pounds overweight. He should be walking into fights at 210 max. Klitschko and Lewis were in good shape but few other fighters really are in excellent shape over 220 pounds.

I would also say that Tyson would have hit just as hard at 205 instead of 215. The extra 10 pounds made him look like a brick wall but I'm not too certain it added that much extra power.

Tyson patterned himself after Dempsey and I don't think he hit all that much harder. How sure are you that Haye would walk through Tyson? Now imagine a Tyson who didn't lose his confidence and will when things got tough. Image a Tyson who7 turned into an Arturo Gatti when things got tough - then you would have a good picture of Dempsey.

Haye, in my mind, is a contender - at best. In no era does he lead the pack. It's a testimony to how poor the heavyweight division currently is for him even to be talked about.

What make you believe modern athletes are so superior to earlier ones - especially in a fighting sport? Look at baseball - pitchers are not throwing harder today than did Walter Johnson, Cy Young, Bob Feller. And certainly don't bring up the Olympics that is a false comparison.

What you said about tysons weight isnt a fact just your opinion.

I understand Tyson based his style on Dempsey but that doesnt mean tyson is Dempsey, so saying could haye beat a prime tyson is irrelevant IMO.

My problem is people writing off haye and just saying Dempsey because hes a old skool fighter.

Haye took wks power so to saying he would be kod easy is ridiculous.

I stand by haye showing Dempsey no respect because he is the smaller man and haye knocking him out early.

[Ray Corso]

Lucas Machine (cool name) is that your real name? Oh thats right this is boxing fairytail land for some!!!
Listen jerkoff long before you were born "we yanks" came over there with our fat azzes and kicked Hitlers azz before he took over your lil island so stop being an insulting bore and straighten up!!! Theres an awfull lot of yanks that settled here from your prison systems long ago and they'd have no problem returning and whipping your big mouth shut!!!!
I'm sure Lucas would be thrilled to have you as a fan, very proud of your demeanor I'm sure!
Insulting folks on the net is one thing but talking down about a country that defends your freedom is azza9!!! you used to be the "Motherland"
but with you in it its just an "old *****land"!!! go to sleep!!
Ray

[Scott9945]

What you said about tysons weight isnt a fact just your opinion.

I understand Tyson based his style on Dempsey but that doesnt mean tyson is Dempsey, so saying could haye beat a prime tyson is irrelevant IMO.

My problem is people writing off haye and just saying Dempsey because hes a old skool fighter.

Haye took wks power so to saying he would be kod easy is ridiculous.

I stand by haye showing Dempsey no respect because he is the smaller man and haye knocking him out early.

No he didn't. He held and flopped to avoided taking anything big, which compromised any chance he had of hurting Klitschko and winning. Haye embarrassed himself with a gutless performance. He fought scared against Valuev too. You can't say that ever happened to Jack Dempsey.

[billeau2]

I can't understand why always in these debates lads from the US bring up baseball and act like its a sport that anyone else even cares less about...I use the term sport loosely aswell because it sure looks like a whole lot of standing around....


Exfronamples of superior athletes in sports in worldwide include Federer (tennis) messi (soccer) bolt (athletics) take your pic for (rugby) phelps (swimming)

From Bill Stern's collection of baseball stories
During the fifities or so there was a parade for the Queen of England. During the parade there were some Yank Vets who were being insulant. One of the Bobbies had enough and with a stern face told one of the Yanks..."Show some respect to the Queen." the Yank then said "to hell with the Queen!" NOt to be outdone the Bobby thought for a moment and said "oh yeah!!? well to hell with Joe Dmaggio!!"

There are 3 variations on this story: in one Babe Ruth is used, in the other Joltin Joe and in the third.....Muhammed Ali. Do you get the moral of the story sir? Just in case: the Bobby at the precise moment of time wanted to insult the American as much as possible.....for maximum effect he DIDN'T pick a president, he didn't insult Marilyn Monroe, or a famous actor....in two cases out of three he picked....you guessed it!